In this episode inspired by a question from Content Marketing World, Katie and Chris talk about how to use data and analytics to build a content marketing roadmap. What data should you pay attention to? What does a data-driven content marketing roadmap look like? Tune in to find out!
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What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.
Christopher Penn 0:02
This is In-Ear Insights, the Trust Insights podcast.
In this week’s in In-Ear Insights is, as the time of record is the week of content marketing world, we have some questions from recent content marketing world chat that we did.
Conoco asks, How do you leverage analytics to build a content marketing roadmap? So Katie, when you hear this question, what do you think about when you’re thinking about analytics and building your content marketing roadmap?
Katie Robbert 0:32
I think that, you know, it’s going to be a bunch of people stuck in a meeting room with whiteboards, and you know, just sort of like drawing things out, and then someone’s gonna go, Wait, did anyone take notes on that? Okay, let me take a picture, and then the picture gets stuck on someone’s phone.
That’s what that immediately conjures up for me.
But really, you know, it’s about planning out what you want to do over the next set of weeks, months, you know, hopefully, you know, maybe sort of, like larger goals of yours.
But, you know, I think that’s sort of what I think of when I think of roadmap, I do think that the term roadmap can be used incorrectly.
Because it’s, it’s what it’s really just a measurable plan.
And the term measurable is what gets lost in a lot of these things.
Because I’ve seen robe apps that are literally like, a list of tasks, like bullet items, like, you know, fold your clothes and, you know, clean the bathroom, and you know, whatever the thing is like, okay, there’s my roadmap.
Well, no, that’s just a task list.
So that sort of, I want to kind of dig into that first.
What do you think of when you when you hear that, Chris?
Christopher Penn 1:43
Well, to me, a roadmap is literally what it sounds like.
So you know, obviously, we’re a little older, I have a lot of gray hair up here.
And I remember that my parents would get, you know, but when we were kids, these things called triptychs from triple A.
And it was basically a printed guide, a map of roads.
And so there was a destination.
And then on each page were like segments turn by turn segments of like, you know, it’s basically it was Google Maps on paper, is what it was.
And that’s what I think of when I hear road map I think of you have where you are, you have a destination and you have the directions, the turns and how long it should take to get between each things.
Because one of the things that was cool about that those old paper ones, it would say like this triple take, you know, like Google Maps does today, it’ll take 44 minutes to do this segment here.
If it takes longer than that, you know, there’s some side roads you can take if there’s an accident.
And so when we talk about a content marketing roadmap, that implies that there’s a destination that you’re trying to get to, and to your point, if you just have a task list, and there’s no destination, then it’s not a roadmap.
Katie Robbert 2:49
Right? And you’re talking about measures that are built in so 44 minutes here, 20 minutes here.
Um, you know, and so I think that that’s first and foremost, if you want to use your data to build a content marketing roadmap, you first need to understand what goes into building a proper roadmap.
And so it should be, where are we so take your baseline, it should be where do you want to get to, that’s your goal.
And all the things in between are your milestones of how you’re going to get there.
It’s not just a random task list.
And this goes back to when we talk about KPI mapping, for example.
All of the metrics and KPIs that you’re measuring, should be able to roll up into your goal.
The same thing is true with the roadmap, all of the tasks that you’re conducting, should roll up into that destination.
And if they don’t, the first question is, why are you doing it? What value does it have to your content marketing, if it’s not going to help you get to your goal? Are you doing it just because someone asked you to are doing it because you want to.
And some of those might be valid reasons.
But they do distract from the ultimate goal.
Christopher Penn 3:56
One of the other things that I remember being cool about those things, and again, suddenly you can get in modern map apps is resourcing on a regular on every other page, like, here’s, there’s a gas station here, there’s a gas station here, this gas station here.
So you’d have the time how long it takes you to drive.
But you also have, you know, here’s how many times you’ll probably need to fill up along the way to get to your destination.
And one of the things I almost never see in any kind of content marketing roadmap or strategy is the expenditures you’re going to need to make to get to that point.
And having those time frames is really important.
So like if we’re at, say, 1000 visitors to the Trust Insights website today, and we have a destination of 2000 visitors a day.
How fast can we increase the speed of that growth? And then what are we going to need to spend in order to make that happen, whether it’s time people or money and again, those are things I don’t typically see on roadmaps
Katie Robbert 4:53
and you know, it’s as you say that I’m like, my first question is okay, how do we get there and So first, we need to figure out what What’s driving traffic? And so figure out what’s driving traffic? And then do more of that.
Figure out how much you’re doing.
And then how can we scale that? And so I think that sort of the thing as you’re building out your content marketing roadmap, aside from, you know, the obvious things of Where are you? And where are you going? What are you going to do to get there.
And so you know, content marketing, I feel like it’s a pretty broad subject, you know, there’s a lot that goes into content marketing, there’s the marketing itself, there’s the content creation, there’s the distribution, there’s the editing, there is the planning.
And so all of that into a proper content marketing roadmap, that’s a lot of work.
And I think that a lot of times, it just at least what I’ve seen is it gets scaled down to, okay, here’s five blogs that I want to write, and I want to put them on my website.
And there, I’ve achieved my goal.
Right? Having a goal of consistency is a good goal, but it’s not going to sort of fill out that larger content marketing plan.
Christopher Penn 6:08
So I guess the first place would be to have that goal.
If you did, you’re not gonna roadmap and then almost take inventory, I guess of what you have, right? So like, if I have a bicycle? Yes, interstate 90 exists, but I can’t use it on a bicycle.
It’s a it’s illegal.
And B, it’s extremely dangerous.
So just like, you know, with our website, could we spend a million dollars a month on Google ads? No, we simply don’t have those resources.
We can’t do that.
That so that avenue at that scale is not open to us.
So that’s the first one is inventory, like how much time do you have each week to create content, those are things that are not in Google Analytics.
But they are in, I hope, what you know about your content marketing capabilities.
Katie Robbert 6:59
And I think that, you know, when we talk about content creation, I think the immediate knee jerk is writing a blog, or writing something, but that’s not necessarily true.
And so content creation comes in a lot of different forms.
And so I was actually talking about this with John John Wall.
Our other partner a couple weeks ago, he was asking me about marketers, and I was giving him the example of the peloton instructors, and I was like, they are content creators, it’s just a different kind of content.
And they have, I’m assuming the same kinds of measures and metrics and KPIs that they need to hit in order to keep their job, because it’s not enough for them to just show up in a studio and teach a class, it has to be educational, it has to be entertaining, people have to get something out of it, they have to want to keep coming back, they have to engage with it on social media, they have to share it with their friends.
And so even though they are technically just bike instructors, they’re content creators who also have to do all of the things.
And then sometimes, you know, they write about it, they have to create blogs.
And so I think that, you know, I’ve lost the point of where I was going with this.
is that happens a lot? Um,
Christopher Penn 8:23
no, your point, though, is correct in that part of what you have to figure out is what kind of content like we’re recording a podcast, which is audio, but we’re also have the video, we have the text we’re going to create from the social media posts.
So again, it goes back to inventory, what are your capabilities? What kinds of things can you do? I was watching a video this past weekend of someone in the entertainment industry was talking about, like, the guidance that a lot of their mentors give them is, pick three things, right? The things that you’re gonna focus on building content, because it’s really hard to scale beyond that without team if you’re solo, or you’re a small shop, you can do three things pretty well, you can do two things really well.
And one thing is not enough, because you need to have some diversity, but you can’t do four or five or six.
And, you know, we know this from our experiences.
It’s hard to crank out LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and tik tok and Snapchat, and you know, all these things in a blog and a podcast and video series and a show and all that so there’s so much that you can do but we have to pick our battles.
So part of that content marketing roadmap is not only what direct where’s the destination, but how are you going to get there, you may not be able to take the Interstate, or like we, this past weekend, the State Highway near my house here, route nine was closed for the good chunk of the weekend because some more on ran into a telephone pole brought up all the electrical wires.
So suddenly all these back roads are super clogged with all this traffic trying to route around it.
And again, the it’s those were not designed for that.
And so if you’re used to driving only backwards and you’re only asked to drive on the highway, it’s very different.
So from a roadmap perspective what What are you capable of doing? And then yeah, at that point, you then start to figure out okay, well, you’re looking at attribution analysis, these are the three or four channels that we know we’re good at now.
So like for us, we know we’re good at email.
We’re okay at search.
not great at social.
I mean, to be perfectly candid.
Okay, at LinkedIn, we’re terrible Facebook.
We’re decent at video.
We’re decent at we’re actually pretty fairly good at audio.
So we have sort of an inventory of what we’re good at.
So now I guess the next question is, okay, we know, generally speaking, what we’re good at and what we’re not good at.
So now we got to start putting together that turn by turn map to get to our destination.
Katie Robbert 10:46
Well, so Chris, you had mentioned a couple of things.
you’d mentioned the attribution analysis, and you had mentioned the things that we’re not good at.
So you know, Facebook, we’re not good at it? Well, here’s the good news.
That’s not where our audiences.
And so we need to, after we figure out, you know, where we want to go and what we have as inventory, we need to figure out where people are, where are those, you know, rest stops, that we’re going to stop along, where we’re going to run into people that we know and that we like, and that we want to talk to and engage with.
And so that’s where that attribution analysis comes in handy.
Because we want to know, yes, we’re good at we’re good at email.
But what what does email do for us in terms of our audience, where’s our audience, when it comes to engaging with our emails, unfortunately, our email newsletter helps drive awareness.
And so that’s where we can really spend our time writing and communicating is in that newsletter, and then we can repurpose that content into other places, such as posting it on as a LinkedIn article or posting it as a blog post.
So we’re trying to scale what we have, by doing it once and using it multiple times in the appropriate way where audiences and I think that that, you know, you also listed out you know, as you’re creating content, you can’t, you know, USA all the social channels and all this sort of things.
You’re right, you can’t do it all.
But your audience isn’t everywhere, like you’re not this like omnipresent being, I’m sorry, in the B2B marketing space, that’s just not how it works.
You’re not a Kardashian.
And so you don’t have to be everywhere.
You don’t have to be good at everything.
What you do need to do is figure out where you’re appropriate audiences and be good at that.
Christopher Penn 12:39
I’m not a Kardashian.
Katie Robbert 12:41
I mean, I mean, they the resemblance is uncanny.
That’s about where it stops.
Christopher Penn 12:47
To that point, though, I think it’s I think it’s a really important point that your, your analytics can give you some guidance about, essentially, the speedometer.
But what speed Can you move at? So we do this, we actually share, just you know, we talked about attribution models and attribution models are really important, because obviously, they help understand what converts what works.
But I don’t think we give enough importance to traffic attribution to traffic modeling, saying like, here’s where our audience is coming from.
So this is for the month of August on the TrustInsights.ai website, you know, 2100 of our visitors came from email here.
So we know that in terms of the speed we drive, if we you know, this is what this channel can drive, and can we could we send more, more email? Probably.
But I think we’d hit diminishing returns pretty quickly.
We see social sent 718 visitors, referrals and 240 visitors.
So we know, like, if we were trying to figure out, you know, should we explore public relations as a as a marketing channel? Right now it drives at a pretty low speed.
Right? So if we had to crank up something, if we had a goal of 10,000 vision, we’re at 4400.
Looking at this distribution.
This was serious speed limits here, there’s some serious things that we’re like, Okay, how would we, which of these things could we change? And how much effort would it take to change each of these channels, and some of them like referral traffic, I think it’d be a really tough push.
Katie Robbert 14:20
So I feel like we should, you know, pin this topic for another time.
But my question would be at looking at this is, you know, is this a direct correlation of our efforts in those specific channels.
So we’ve already acknowledged that we’re really good at email.
So we do that the most, therefore, it shows up the most.
We don’t pitch ourselves, we don’t try to get our stuff placed.
We’re just hoping that people reshare it and that we get that, you know, referral traffic back.
So I would say it there’s two things you know, if we want to, you know, get referral, then we should be giving it the same amount of effort that we give email, and then we can more fairly see, is it working? Or is it not, but I feel like that topic is, you know, a little bit off of what we’re talking about today.
Christopher Penn 15:12
I was just talking about, we can dig into that.
But from a roadmap perspective, these are sort of these are the speed limits for us right now, with what we’re doing, we would have to change some of the things in the find time, or sacrifice time to try and boost the speed, essentially, any of these things, we had this roadmap analogy, which I realized that, like, really stretching,
Katie Robbert 15:34
we’re gonna make it work.
Christopher Penn 15:36
make it work.
So we have, we know what speed we can drive at, we know our destination.
How do we do the turn by turns?
Katie Robbert 15:46
Well, and I think that we need to, once we know what the destination is, that’s when you start to break it down into those smaller milestones.
And so understanding all the elements like, you know, do we have all of our topics? Do we have all of our keywords? Do we have writers, you know, do we want to be writing? Or do we want to be shooting video and then turning that into writing? And so we’ve already done our inventory.
And so Chris, you and I, if we take our example, we create a lot of video and audio content, and then we use the AI transcription and turn that into written content.
So that sort of our turn by turn is our own blueprint is we create audio first.
And then we turn that into written content, and then we republish that.
And so we need to figure out, what topics are we going to cover.
We did this a couple of weeks ago in our live stream.
And we figured out at least for our videos, people in our audience are really interested in Google Analytics and SEO.
And so we need to make sure we have our keyword research and our topic research done for those answering those questions.
And then we need to start assigning those out to different dates.
And so that starts to be that starts to fill in, you know, those turn by turn, okay, this week, returning here, this week, returning here, we’re taking a left turn here, right turn here, we’re gonna pit stop here, and refill and look at our analytics and see what’s working and adjust, you know, you know, those kinds of things.
That’s the way I look at
Christopher Penn 17:16
I like that.
And I think having, you know, some predictive analytics and forecasting of those topics will really help with that.
Because if you if we know, for example, that creating a piece of content on artificial intelligence, looking at something like say, the GPT, J, six B model, that’s going to take some effort to create that, right? That’s not that’s not a quick blog post.
That’s not a 20 minute podcast.
And so if we know that that’s going to be a topic of concern, say in November, we can plan accordingly.
So that our roadmap has those milestones, create the content, distributed, promoted, etc.
And we and we have that baked in, I think that’s a really important part of that roadmap.
And again, it’s something that we don’t see in a lot of content marketing plans and roadmaps.
There’s no predictive analytics portion that says, this week, you need to do this next week, you need to do this, because this is when the audience is going to care about these things.
Katie Robbert 18:12
Well, and to go back to the question of, you know, what inventory do you have? And how can you scale it, we know that a lot of our friends and clients rely on guest posts.
And that seems to be a little bit more unwieldy, because they don’t know what kind of content they’re going to be getting.
And so they’re trying to retrofit topics that may or may not align with what their business does into, you know, this roadmap just to fill the space just to have something for people to read.
And that can be incredibly detrimental for you getting to your destination, because now you’re wildly off course.
And are you going, you know, now are you going to see the dinosaur in Texas, and you’re going to see the basement in the Alamo.
And you’re going to see like the giant cheese wheel, which is all like cool, and interesting and fun.
But you’re just trying to get to Wyoming.
And these things have nothing to do with that.
Christopher Penn 19:07
And so I guess, two Chronicles questions about leveraging analytics.
It’s not Google Analytics, per se, although you can if you have good tagging structures in place, you can at least get to see some of that.
But it is using analytics to build that roadmap is is you have to have you start with a descriptive analytics, what happens, you know, what are you capable of? The diagnostic analytics are sort of the Why did those things happen? And that involves understanding the resources you have available to us.
And then the predictive analytics of what’s likely to happen and how do we plan for it and then after that, it’s it’s building out the actual plan and doing it.
So how do we convert it? I mean, I can’t count the number of predictive analytics forecasts we’ve done for clients.
You know, here’s your content calendar for the next six months and it doesn’t get used so often.
How do we help them get we’ve given you the map? How do we help people then actually drive directions around the map?
Katie Robbert 20:09
Well, I think there’s a couple of things at play.
You know, I think, at least in my experience, most often, the reason people don’t use analytics is because it doesn’t say what they want it to say, you know, and so it’s not giving them the answers that in their head they’ve already formulated.
And so, you know, if we take a look at our, you know, SEO analysis, for example, and I’m just going to make some stuff up just as the example.
But let’s say we take a look at our SEO analysis.
And the thing that people most want to read about from our audience, the thing that brings people to our website is Facebook.
Well, we don’t do a lot with Facebook, but that’s what brings people to the website.
And that’s a mismatch.
And so we are then choosing to ignore the data and say, we’re not going to write about Facebook, even though that’s our biggest traffic driver.
And we’re going to write about Tiktok, for example.
And so we are willingly choosing to ignore what the data is telling us the direction the data is telling us that we need to go in.
And I think that that’s actually a very common thing is, we give them the predictive forecast, and they’re like, Yeah, I don’t like any of those topics, those aren’t interesting to me.
So I’m just gonna write about whatever I feel about or, you know, I need to source a bunch of guest content, and they’re gonna give me whatever they feel like writing about.
And a lot of it comes when you’re writing, writing is one of those really, personal things, and you tend to just write about what you feel like writing about, you know, we can go into whole, you know, the writing structure and contract and so so basically, a lot of times where it comes from is, is what I felt like writing about and what I think people want to hear about, and they just willingly whether they realize it or not choose to ignore the data.
Christopher Penn 21:57
Should they be I mean, like you and I have had this discussion about, you know, pulling back on the number of posts we put out on Instagram, even though Instagram and statistics about Instagram is one of our top traffic drivers year, right, I was still getting 1000 visits a month to 2019.
post about it, right? Even though at the top of the post, it’s like, last year, use the 2020 data, but it’s it’s still just so popular.
Katie Robbert 22:19
I think for us, and you know, for others in a similar situation, we need to figure out what it is about that post that people gravitate toward, and where that fits in, as it highlights what we do at Trust Insights.
And so my assumption, and I haven’t dug into this is that people gravitate because they can’t get Instagram statistics that they trust in other places.
And so in that sense, we can highlight how we use data to get valuable, trusted insights, we need to make sure that it’s clear that that’s what we’re doing, and not that we, you know, are experts at promoting content on Instagram.
And so I think if we can make sure that we’re still true to ourselves, and the content fits, and it’s valuable, and it makes sense, a lot of times, it’s just this is what I feel like writing about, you know, and I’m just sort of making that as a throwaway comment.
But, you know, you Chris, really enjoy writing about artificial intelligence.
And when we first started Trust Insights, we were very heavy on artificial intelligence.
And it’s not that our audience doesn’t find it interesting.
But a lot of it is too futuristic for where they are today.
So we had to start to switch, how we were thinking about presenting artificial intelligence, and how often we’re leading with that headline.
And so we have to use our own analytics to figure out, are we meeting our audience where they are? One of the things that you know, we haven’t covered is just asking your audience, what do you want to hear about what questions do you have? And so this podcast is actually sourced from a question that somebody in our audience had about using analytics to plan their content marketing.
Christopher Penn 24:08
Yeah, I mean, I have seen that even in my own stuff.
One of the most popular posts I’ve written recently was on whether Lincoln bio in your Instagram in the post influences engagement.
Because there was apparently a study done a while back, saying it reduces engagement by 30%.
Spoiler alert, it doesn’t look like 300,000 posts and made that determination.
But yeah, there’s I think, and again, it’s probably a topic for another time, any individual topic can probably be worked into, you know, some kind of angle or pitch that that makes sense.
It’s just how much contortion that requires.
Will will dictate on how far down the road you want to go.
Katie Robbert 24:54
Well, and this goes into something we were talking about on our live stream last week about sponsors content is the content itself and he good.
And so, you know, as you’re thinking about this content marketing roadmap, you have to think not just about the volume of content, or the type of content, but also the quality of the content itself.
Like, yeah, we can churn out, you know, 100 posts a week, I guarantee they’re all going to suck.
Because at that volume, we, between the two of us, we can’t have high quality and high volume.
And so we need to figure out which one is more important to us.
And for us, it’s quality over volume, you know, and maybe down the road, we’ll be able to produce more.
But if you are willingly ignoring your analytics, and still writing about stuff you want to write about, it better be amazing, it better be fantastic.
Because your audience, you need them in order to like it’s a it’s a cycle, you need the audience to read the content in order to be able to justify producing more content.
Otherwise, it’s just going into avoidance waste of everybody’s time.
Christopher Penn 26:03
Yeah, the quality is the vehicle and they’re in the roadmap analogy, you know, would you rather drive in a rusty Hugo or you know, a high quality bicycle? Well, in terms of safety, and actually getting where you want to go, the bicycle is gonna be better than the better choice in the car, mostly made of duct tape and bondo, right, it’s just gonna end badly, and it won’t get you it won’t get you to the destination, right? poor quality will not get you to the destination, no matter how good the map is, that’s right, or how accurate it is.
If the car breaks down on the side of the road, because it’s such poor quality, you can’t get your destination.
Katie Robbert 26:38
And that brings us back to using your analytics.
So the analytics is not just for planning out the content marketing roadmap, it’s for measuring your progress along the way.
And so to go back to the original question, you want to figure out first where you’re at.
And so you need to take your baseline, so use your analytics, whatever you have available, like, you know, how much of our content is seen? How much of our content? Do we share how much of our content drives traffic to our website, you know, whatever the important metrics to you are, then figure out what your inventory is.
So how do we create content? Where are people consuming our content? Do we do audio or video or written or all three, and then you figure out, you know, which channels are working for us with your attribution, whether it’s email, or organic, or social.
And that starts to frame up how people are consuming that content.
And so then you have your topics, your keywords, your, you know, writers, and all of those things, you start to go down the line, but then your measurement doesn’t stop your analytics don’t stop, you have to measure, is it working? And then start to make adjustments along the way, like, are we getting to Texas? Or are we headed to Alaska? Well, maybe we maybe we decide we’re just going to Seattle, we’re somewhere in between.
Christopher Penn 27:57
One of the things that I think is a metric people don’t pay enough attention to with content is average time on page.
You know, if you have a blog post, that’s 600 words.
And you know, from credible research studies, the average reading speed of a person is about 150 words a minute, people should spend about four minutes on that page, if they’re consuming the content fully, they should spend about four minutes, if your average time on page for that piece of content is 15 seconds, your content didn’t do its job.
When we post this episode of the podcast on the Trust Insights website.
It’s going to come with you know the transcript.
So it’ll be about 30 minutes of video.
And then probably, you can read about twice the speed that we speak out.
So about 15 minutes of text.
If the post if this page on our on our blogs, yes, average time on page of like four seconds, like, okay, people came into me left it, it didn’t do its job.
Katie Robbert 28:48
And so to start to wrap it all up, you have a lot of different metrics available to create your content marketing roadmap.
So first and foremost, you need to decide what’s your destination, and that will start to dictate the types of analytics that you need to use in order to figure out how are you going to get there? And so, you know, to go back to the, you know, triptych analogy, you know, do you need, you know, to know where all the gas stations are? Do you need to have a pile of snacks in your car? You know, do you need to get a tune up on your car beforehand, you know, all of those things.
And so with your content marketing, you know, what, what analytics, what data do I have available to us? What inventory do I have? What kinds of resources and skill sets do I have? And do I know what I’m going to write about? Do I know where my audience is and what they care about? Those are sort of the Big Three.
Christopher Penn 29:42
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