So What? Marketing Analytics and Insights Live
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In this week’s episode of So What? we focus on the accessibility of your website. Why this is important and what actions to take to remedy issues. Catch the replay here:
In this episode you’ll learn:
- Why you should care about website accessibility
- How to discover your website accessibility issues
- What actions to take
Have a question or topic you’d like to see us cover? Reach out here: https://www.trustinsights.ai/resources/so-what-the-marketing-analytics-and-insights-show/
Katie Robbert 0:28
Well, hi there, everyone. Happy Thursday. Welcome to so Walker marketing analytics and insights live show. Today we’re talking about accessibility, specifically, the accessibility of your website. So we’re going to cover what it is how to figure out how accessible your website is, and what actions to take. And so before we kick it off, Chris, I usually kick it off with you. But John, I actually want to kick it off with you this week. And just sort of ask you, if I said to you, how, you know, what is the accessibility of the marketing over coffee website? Like? What would you say would be like the bare minimum of things? Or what do you think is the understanding of marketers in terms of how accessible their website should be?
John Wall 1:06
Oh, yeah, no, this is this is a real deer grinder, right? Like most marketers have no idea how accessible their website is, like, they would say, oh, yeah, we got that covered. But the reality is, like, if you go in and look, maybe it’s half done on a good day, and there’s a lot of broken stuff. But I have, there’s like one, for me that I do make sure works, that is important. And that is always on forms the tabbing order, you know, for any form you have on your website, all of these site readers, and even somebody that just uses keyboard alone, you know, not mouse, they need to be able to fill out a form, they should be able to type and tab and have it go to the next field. And it should do those all in order and at the submit button. So that somebody that has, you know, is not able to mouse can actually stay on the keyboard and get the form done. And that’s the killer. That’s the only one where I don’t budge on because, you know, you’re killing your conversions. They’re like, that’s, you know, you’re like, excluding 20% of the world from buying your thing. So that’s the big one. But otherwise, ya know, it’s a total mess. And so yeah, I’m excited to hear what Chris throws out as far as solutions and process because it has never been anything but a complete cluster on any site I’ve ever worked on.
Katie Robbert 2:16
You know, it’s funny, I didn’t even really think about the tabbing through the forms. But as someone who used to do data entry, and didn’t have a mouse, I just had the keyboard. That was primarily how I navigated through the system, which was, you know, through tabbing. And it reminds me this morning, I was on my town website, trying to pay my water bill. And the way that the tabbing works, it’ll go from field to little question mark, like the question mark, being like the explainer. And I’m like, just let me get to the next thing. Because in my brain, I should just be able to tap through, but it stops at all these other fields first. So I think that that’s a really, really great call out, John. So thank you for that. So Chris, as I always ask, where do you want to start?
Christopher Penn 3:05
Well, as I typically say, let’s start with some definitions. Accessibility refers to the capability of a website to allow multiple technologies and means of access, right. So for the hearing impaired, if there’s no audio content, there’s some for anything that you have on site, there’s some alternative, for example, closed captions on videos would be a good example of that. For the vision impaired, there’s the ability to use screen readers and other navigational technologies, and so on and so forth. For people who are not substantially impaired, but have some impairment. For example, you know, just as I get older, I notice like, I need the fonts to be a little bit larger, on things. And so having stuff being options available, partly user side, but also partly site side, designs that support that so that regardless of whether or not a person has some kind of impairment, they can still do business with you. The CDC, the US Center for Disease Control, said that in 2019, there’s census data, approximately 5% of Americans had some kind of hearing impairment, 5% had some kind of vision impairment and about 13% had some type of cognitive impairment. So when you put it all together, approximately 25% of the population give or take has some kind of need for assistive technologies, whether or not they know whether or not they use it. And as marketers, we have to be logically asked the questions, do we want their business, right? Because when we look at stuff like search engine optimization, and email marketing, all these channels that are focused on driving traffic, once somebody arrives at our property, if we immediately just piss them off by making our site unusable to them, we’ve wait to time and effort and money.
Katie Robbert 5:02
And I would say to that we do want their business, the services that we provide to marketers and businesses is not is not tailored to completely abled people like anyone should have good marketing should have good data like this applies to anyone who is in that field, regardless of your, you know, abilities and impairment, like, it doesn’t matter to us. So we want to make sure that our site and our content and our assets are as accessible as possible. So go ahead and give me the bad news. How about,
Christopher Penn 5:42
well, let’s talk about the different options for what you can do. Because there’s I categorize your accessibility testing into sort of three broad categories, there’s no, just the basics, there is sort of more standards based focus, and then there’s automation. So let’s go ahead and take a look at some of the different examples that we might be using to to understand a site. One of the first places to go the W three C, has a Web Accessibility Initiative, they have hundreds of different testing tools that allow you to test out a website and and look for violations of standards. So these are international standards that have been put together for accessibility in terms of how a site should look and things like that. And this list of tools that you can choose, the standard applies to you and your nation, this the WCAG, the Content Accessibility Guidelines, typically is considered sort of the best in class. And if you can meet that, then you can meet most everything else, you can look for tools that you pay for tools that are free, etc, and so on and so forth. But probably the the easiest place for a lot of people to start, especially if you’ve got a Windows computer or a Mac or Linux computer, anything that has a command line is actually just with a good old fashioned text based web browser. So you may or may not have these installed on a computer, but if they’re, there’s so many of them, they’re they’re really relatively straightforward using their free, almost all of them are free. So we’re going to start with, let’s do the Trust Insights website. So I’m just going to put in this, and this is what comes up. So the question that we would have to ask is, is this what we want people to be able to do? So there’s immediately sort of a skip to content thing there. There’s some navigation now that can, as you talked about, scroll through a tab through look at what’s happening behind the scenes here, and then
Katie Robbert 7:44
I see. So this is giving us just the text base version of our website. Without images without clickable buttons, those kinds of things. This is what someone coming to our website, that’s just text base would say,
Christopher Penn 8:00
exactly. This is what a screen reader would see. So for someone with visual impairment, this is what it would attempt to read aloud. Okay, as, as John was saying, you there’s the forms and things like that, being able to tab through form fields, and so on and so forth.
Katie Robbert 8:14
I mean, your command box is not very vision friendly. I’ll be you know, I I’m struggling to see what’s even on your screen, so that in and of itself, that’s
John Wall 8:27
a red green colorblind.
Christopher Penn 8:30
Oh, exactly. Oh, the irony. But you know, this is this is essentially what is our site looks like to a screen reader. And if this was to be read aloud, this is what would be happening. So is there anything that I guess the first question is, is there anything that is egregiously wrong here? I would say it’s not wrong. But the important part that you know, from a marketing perspective, which is the contact form, so is several screens down, I like to navigate down to it, that may or may not be something we want to address. But more important when you look at this, this first top half of the page, this doesn’t really convey a whole lot of information about who we are and what we do.
John Wall 9:17
No money no I have to jump in. Because if I had seen this and this had come up, like this is already a be like, I’ve seen so many websites that it just like comes up with the meta tag and the rest of it’s all broken, like the fact that you can even just you know where Trust Insights and this is a website like we’re with this is a huge win so far.
Christopher Penn 9:34
Right? So here’s, here’s an exercise close your eyes. Everyone, close your eyes. I’m going to read this aloud as if I were a screen reader. And you tell me if you know who Trust Insights is what we do. MAE navigation, Trust Insights about what we do insights, log contact, pragmatic change management, about Trust Insights, why change management? Why Trust Insights made the pivot to it Change management approach, learn more trust building, team building, your purpose unites, but how is it fulfilled? training, education, and so on, so forth. So, open your eyes based on what you just heard, do you have a good sense of who we are and what we do?
Katie Robbert 10:15
I assume we do something with change management least three or four times. And so that seems like, you know, as you’re reading it, you know, obviously, I know our website. So I would imagine that those are the navigation buttons at the top. And as a user, I would need to click into them. But what’s on the homepage is a lot of information about change management.
Christopher Penn 10:38
Exactly. So now let’s go to John’s point. Let’s try a different website. Anyone got what’s it that you want to see? That you
John Wall 10:46
want to be embarrassed about? I did yeah. Throw marketing over coffee on there. Let’s see how bad this chokes
Katie Robbert 10:52
I mean, you’re gonna have to do it. Anyway. John, you know, I’m going to add it to your to do list today.
Christopher Penn 10:56
This is you have marketing over coffee marketing podcasts, the navigation menu, select Page now with more escape rooms and Jonathan morale. And so one thing I do see here is you do see a little repetition but not too bad. Actually, all things considered. This is pretty good. Because this is getting people to the reason they’re here which is get to get right into the shows right into the episodes. So that’s, that’s not bad. Let’s take
John Wall 11:20
again, huge when I’m live, this was way less horrible than
Christopher Penn 11:26
let’s take a good general business site. Let’s do let’s do apple. See what apple.com looks like. But here’s Apple, global navigation, some menus and stuff like that. And then you get right into some products, MacBook Air, iPhone 13 I think 13 Pro and so on and so forth. And really doesn’t get you know, ugly until you get into that footer, which is a huge block of legal texts.
John Wall 11:54
Katie Robbert 11:56
What he did, like a Hubspot something more B2B.
Christopher Penn 12:00
Hmm. Good. Good. Good call. Let’s do that one.
Katie Robbert 12:06
Not to call it Hubspot.
John Wall 12:08
Christina, here we go. This is it live or die. But
Katie Robbert 12:11
I’m thinking of, you know, more B2B stuff.
Christopher Penn 12:15
So immediately have your English your language chooser, which is a form of accessibility in and of itself. If you have the ability to offer multiple versions of your site in different languages. That’s terrific. We had the about we have the menu software, the Hubspot CRM platform, marketing hub, sales hub. So it tells you kind of what it does, and things like that. So again, this is not bad. There are some little little navigational oddities here and there, but for the most part, this looks pretty good. Well, and
Katie Robbert 12:43
what I noticed is right away, one of the first things that said was like it was more of a one line tag all of Hubspot marketing, sales, and customer service, CMS and operations software on one platform. So like, Oh, I know what this is.
Christopher Penn 12:57
Exactly. So so far, we’re not doing too badly, in terms of websites. But this is an easy check, right? This is something that requires no technical skill other than getting a text based web browser installed. And you can very quickly look at your website and Nokk is this is representative of what we would want an audience to experience, particularly an audience that was having a screen reader read this thing aloud. If it’s not, if it’s if it’s really challenging or difficult to use, then you probably want to start there. So that’s the first set of techniques. The second thing, set of things you can do is install browser extensions that will tell you if your site is not meeting certain guidelines. So there’s one by the United States Government Social Security Administration called Andy, which has a little browser bookmark, you can just drop that right into your browser. And then it will list accessibility issues like here’s all the different things and sort of alerts letting you know hey, there’s some things in here on your website, it will highlight them when you’ve clicked on them that we’re having some trouble there’s there’s some accessibility problems. We can’t there’s there’s no accessible name or enter text labels and things like that. Other things like keyboard alerts. There’s something that is not tappable down here. So you know, this is something that should be skipped by, again, very simple, very straightforward, easy to navigate, easy to understand. Now, this is where it gets challenging. A lot of these tools and this is true across the board do require you to have some, I guess, web technical knowledge to understand like even what is this thing telling you? This is saying, hey, there’s a this has no accessibility name on this link. Well, if you don’t know HTML CSS, this is not gonna be super helpful.
Katie Robbert 14:59
On that one gonna be my next question is what kind of level of understanding do you need to have of how these errors and alerts are given to you? You know, so we had been talking about this a little bit last week. And that was my first question to you is, I don’t know what any of this means. And so I’m going to spend a lot of my time on search engines, copying and pasting the exact message, put it into the search engine and try to figure out what it means. And then I’m going to try to figure out what the heck to do about it. Because maybe I’m not the person who should be messing with the PHP on my website, as we learned this morning.
Christopher Penn 15:36
Another terrific tool, IBM has what’s called the Equal access Accessibility Checker, it’s a Chrome extension, you plug it into Chrome and then have it scan, go to a page hosted have it scan and it will, again summarize those those same things. Here’s, here’s what’s going on with your website. And those are things you would need to go and fix. The one thing I like about IBM is that they explain why this this particular element is important. It says this, this is important. So that you when you’re navigating with keyboard, you know what to fix. And then it tells you the sort of the element location about where on your site that is, so that you could hand out to a developer and say, Hey, go fix this thing.
Katie Robbert 17:29
Yeah, and I think the why is always incredibly important, because you may make some business decisions to say, that’s not an important thing for our website to be able to do, based on who our target audiences, which is a totally valid conversation to have, you don’t need to be everything to everyone. But as I think about the breakdown of like, you know, business to consumer websites versus business to business websites, I can see those being very different conversations, where business to consumer, majority of them are trying to sell something. And consumers come in, you know, all walks of life and all ability levels. And so I would imagine that that’s, I won’t say it’s 100% more important for a consumer site, but it is likely, you know, a different set of priorities in terms of the accessibility than a B2B site.
John Wall 18:25
Right? Oh, that’s what you’re talking about there, too. So you’ve got a CSS declaration, like if you fix that one tag, those eight errors all go?
Christopher Penn 18:35
Exactly. The other thing that’s nice about IBM is that the there’s differentiates important so you have violations, like these are standards violations, these are our problems you have, you need to review it, it might or might not be a violation. And then you just have, you know, notices recommendations. So from a compliance perspective, especially if you are funded by government entities or you take government funding, you have to fix the violations. If you don’t, you’re probably in violation of one or more points of your contracts. Because if you look, a lot of contracts of businesses sign with governments accessibility are part of the mandates.
Katie Robbert 19:13
So when I worked at my previous company, where we did get a lot of grant funding, that was one of the stipulations of the parent company website, was that it had to be it had to meet all of these accessibility regulations. And so that became a big part of, you know, our design and web development team. So it would be like, you know, we would almost kind of have like assigned task force members to make sure and be checking for those things, because it’s not, it’s not a skill set. Everybody on the team is going to have or be familiar with. So we assigned the understanding of those regulations to specific team members who were then in charge of making sure that we were always up to date
Christopher Penn 19:59
Exactly. So those, these tools help us to look at an individual page. The other thing that you can do is you can have these tools do automated site scans. And there are again, many, many companies that can do this. There’s a long, long list here, over on the W three, see, you can use the open source tools, if you have some coding experience. There’s companies like SiteImprove, for example, that have automated tools that are cloud based, that can do the sort of summary easy summarization, and then make it simple to look at. I’ve been using the IBM one programmatically. And what it does is it it goes through and scans the entire site that you have given all its pages, and it puts together these long reports on every single page on your site classifies violation level, the specific things, you know, the help page, if you want to look at the help documents, where that is on your site. So this one form control element has input has no associated label. So for that one, John, that one’s on marketing over coffee, there’s a form that lacks some tags. So that would be one that that tops your list of what we can do to fix our form is to make them as good as possible. From a accessibility perspective, again, this is all the same data. But from being able to for being able to scale, one of the things that I would suggest people do is take your data out of something like Search Console, or Google Analytics on a page by page basis, and the pages that get the most traffic. Use that to prioritize where your accessibility efforts start, make sure those are the most important pages, the ones that are in the best condition.
Katie Robbert 21:43
I’m guessing probably things like about us and contact us and what we do. You know, if you have it set up from the gecko as part of your web design strategy, it’s probably more straightforward. But if you are an older site, you do have to prioritize that way. Especially if you are maybe an enterprise sized company. And your site is built, you know, stacks and stacks and stacks on top of each other, you just keep adding on to it, you probably 100% need to prioritize the most important pages.
Christopher Penn 22:16
Definitely. I mean, I think there’s a a relatively straightforward ways to approach that stuff, too. If you were to go into, say, a content attribution analysis, like you know, our most valuable Pages Report, those top pages like the newsletter subscription page, the Contact page, the homepage, the ones that drive conversions, that’s got to top your list for you got to make sure these pages are accessible. One of the things I think as worth pointing out to is that the way accessibility works, when you’re making a site more accessible, you are in effect, making it easier for machines like screen readers and things to to navigate your site. Well, there’s another machine that likes to read sites to called Google and Google’s crawlers. If you read the technical details of how Google works and how it crawls the site, the first thing it does is it grabs all the HTML, it reduces it down to its core form and then puts it into its indexing platform. The more accessible your site is that easier time the crawler has with the less time it spends on that page, because everything’s ordered and structured and nice and neat. And the more likely it is to catch everything and not miss chunks of your page versus a site that is not accessible, where you got leftover flash from the early 2000s. And the random animations, things that doesn’t help. And it doesn’t feed Google either. So if you want to improve your accessibility, you will also improve your search. In yesterday’s Trust Insights newsletter for those folks who missed it. One of the things we looked at was, does accessibility have any any impact whatsoever on search, right on the ability for your site to be found? And the answer is yes. It’s not super strong. But if we look at I really can’t see that that’s tough to read. Browser. Exactly. As I look, I turn on browsers that’s even harder to read. But in terms of the factors that lead to showing up with, you know, having a decent number of impressions and Search Console, the lack of violations for accessibility was the number three factor that we found inbound links and website traffic, obviously, were the first two but the number three was a lack of violations, which speaks to the importance of accessibility and making sure Google says yeah, I can understand what’s on your site.
Katie Robbert 24:50
Well, and I think that this goes back to understanding your audience and who it is that you’re trying to appeal to. And so we’re talking about two different things. We’re talking about humans and we’re talking about men She’s. And so first and foremost, you need to decide who’s your audience? Where do they hang out? What do they care about. If your audience is purely on social media, for example, on Twitter or on, you know, Facebook, whatever list a social media platform, you may not necessarily care as much about the accessibility for a search engine, like Google or Bing, or any of the other ones. So it may not be important, because that’s not how your audience is finding you. So it just doesn’t matter. Conversely, if search is one of your strongest channels, or and or you want it to be, then you need to make sure you’re accessible both for humans and for machines.
Christopher Penn 25:45
Exactly. So what are some things that you can do to improve accessibility, one of the most important things is when you are having a site be designed or redesigned, make accessibility part of the RFP part of the requirements part of the deliverables to say like your design must pass WCAG guidelines. If it doesn’t, then the job’s not done. Because what can happen is you may get a design back, and then when you dig into that design and start looking at all the code, you may have a hard time figuring out okay, well, how do I fix the accessibility issues? Like we have a custom design theme? And it’s gonna take a little bit to dig through this right to dig through all the different style sheets that are in here. And figure Okay, well, how do we what changes do we need to make? And how do we dig through the how many lines of CSS is this, we have 11,571 lines of CSS to go through, if you get what’s wrong, and I say to go make it accessible?
Katie Robbert 26:53
So yeah, no big deal. But, you know, that goes back to, we need to make a collective decision of how accessible we want our site to be to machines and to humans. And, you know, you could say, well, I need everyone to be able to access it. But quite honestly, that’s not true. So we need to make some decisions about what is the most important parts of that accessibility. Obviously, text readers is an important part of it, you know, the forum fills those kinds of things. But we need to decide for our company, what those priorities are, instead of trying to do it all. Because you know, to your point, those 11,000 some odd lines of code, the chances of something breaking our high. Gonna put that out there, you know, and so if we’re not being methodical about it, if we’re not being pragmatic around choosing what we decide to change and fix, if we’re not bringing in, you know, website experts and designers, we could, quite honestly, just really hose our website, and that would do the opposite of what we’re trying to do. Just putting that out there. Yeah, no,
Christopher Penn 28:11
but I think that’s a valid point. But I guess the main message would be, when opportunities come up to have a site redesign stuff, making sure that accessibility is baked into your contracts that way. It’s part and parcel of the design considerations, and not something that you have to do retro actively and go, How are we going to not break our website? Like, no, it’s part of the business requirements up front.
Katie Robbert 28:38
So John, I know that the marketing over coffee website, honestly, it’s really just sort of like a house for people to come to to find out about the podcast and get access to the podcast. So in terms of accessibility, you know, you had mentioned being able to tap through forums, like what are the things that you feel would be the most important to a marketing over coffee potential listener? In terms of accessibility?
John Wall 29:03
Yeah, no, I’m just like that, like, that’s a huge hit. Because really, it is just get a list of the episodes and who the guests are, and be able to get to the file. So, you know, we’re just lucky that it’s an incredibly simple process, the one that is probably a total mess. In fact, I know for a fact it is a mess is the newsletter thing has changed. I have new vendors in there, in fact, because I was noticing that that one high on the list that was screwed up, that was from 2010. So I’m sure that’s like a form going to an email vendor that probably doesn’t even exist anymore. And so that’s where the cleanup needs to get done. That’s fine. But as long as the shows are good, at least where you know, the people can get to what they want. The business is not in good shape, but at least the customers can, you know, get what they need to get to which is critical.
Christopher Penn 29:46
Yeah, one of the things I like about the summary is that again, what some of the IBM tools do is they kind of give you a just a general score on a per page basis to say like, this, this page is in 83% 80% of it is is in good condition. If you were to Uh, let’s pop back here to the this page give this one scan the homepage 79%. Right? Yes, it’s that’s it, there are spots here and there that are in good shape. Let’s take a look at our hosts page here, do a quick scan on that 80%. And I know there’s one page, I believe the archives page that has some issues with it is also an extremely large page, which in itself is kind of inaccessible. And this was scores 68%. So
John Wall 30:28
2000 violations, you know?
Christopher Penn 30:35
Yeah, in terms of pages, we want to fix this one. This one’s Well, this
John Wall 30:39
one is currently, you know, again, this is like, I’m shocked, this still works at all, like, I haven’t touched this page, and, you know, seven plus years, and the fact that it does at least still put everything up, there is a miracle in itself.
Katie Robbert 30:51
So, you know, that’s half the battle, John.
John Wall 30:54
Just just showing up as at least, but yeah, that is hilarious that there’s you know, so I have 3200 things I need to check out on this page, I got a pretty full to do list when it comes to this.
Katie Robbert 31:09
So you know, in terms of getting started, I know that you know, WordPress and other CMS systems make it pretty straightforward for you to add like alt text to images, for example, that should become part of your regular process. And so the alt text, if you’re unaware is what a text reader would describe a picture as. So if I put up a picture of the three of us, my alt text might say something like, the Trust Insights Team hosting their weekly live stream, kind of thing, just so if the machine is asked you describe what’s in the picture. It doesn’t just say, you know, so what? And then the text and then the person who’s trying to understand the context like so what, what
Christopher Penn 32:01
exactly know, some of the low hanging fruit, the easy stuff is obviously making clear navigation, all tags, not text labels on things, tables, in particular, if you’re using tables, and it was it make sure this table headers, and column headers and things like that, were straightforward stuff. For any kind of video, there should always be closed captions. Again, that’s one of the things where, in terms of overlap, there’s overlap between accessibility and SEO, if you if you give YouTube if you host your videos and YouTube, and you give YouTube a closed captions file, it then doesn’t have to try and transcribe it itself. And if it’s got keywords that you care about, like when we do the Trust Insights podcast, and we’re talking about your big data analytics, well, guess what that that SRT file that the subtitles title is filled with our keywords so that when go Google wasn’t scans it, and then you search on Google on YouTube for big data analytics, we now have a chance of showing up for that terms. So all these accessibility things, there’s a lot of overlap with SEO. So prioritize using your data from Search Console and Google Analytics, the most popular pages, those are the ones that you should should tune up first, take care of the easy stuff, and then consult with your design team about whether it’s you whether you can retro actively patch stuff, or whether it’s time to do a redesign anyway, and make accessibility a linchpin of the new design.
Katie Robbert 33:29
I completely agree with that. And, you know, always at least understanding your audience and who it is that you want to be reaching. You know, and if so, the accessibility issues are part of that audience. And obviously, you should probably get on it right away, because you’re missing out on that audience already.
Christopher Penn 33:49
Exactly. And there’s something there. That’s called a non response bias. And I think is really important for marketers to consider a non response bias occurs and serving when the percentage of the audience that does not respond is statistically different than this potential audience that does respond. And when that happens, you then have biases in your data. If your site has no accessibility whatsoever, the percentage of people who just leave your site and never come back may be substantially statistically different than the people who stick around because of accessibility issues. And so you may have some more some hidden non response bias in your data itself. You’re may not be accounted with. So to increase and improve that to increase the chances of getting a full picture of your audience, make sure that accessibility is built into what you do.
Katie Robbert 34:41
Totally makes sense. So know who you’re trying to reach. Take a look at your website, prioritize your pages, and then John, get started. Start doing the 2700 violations. I don’t know why you’re still here. You got a lot of work today.
Christopher Penn 34:57
Any final thoughts before we roll out?
John Wall 35:02
Go forth and do good work.
Christopher Penn 35:04
All right, so I’ll talk to you all next week. Thanks for watching today. Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you’re watching it. For more resources and to learn more, check out the Trust Insights podcast at trust insights.ai/t I podcast and a weekly email newsletter at trust insights.ai/newsletter Got questions about what you saw in today’s episode? Join our free analytics for markers slack group at trust insights.ai/analytics for marketers See you next time.
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