So What? Marketing Analytics and Insights Live
airs every Thursday at 1 pm EST.
In this week’s episode of So What? we focus on evaluating your 2020 data. We walk through where to start, what to care about, and what you have at your disposal to make decisions. Catch the replay here:
In this episode you’ll learn:
- Developing a “so what” mentality
- How to use the data you have
- Making decisions and taking action
- Out of the box attribution – TBD
- How do you benchmark a website’s performance? – TBD
Have a question or topic you’d like to see us cover? Reach out here: https://www.trustinsights.ai/resources/so-what-the-marketing-analytics-and-insights-show/
Katie Robbert 0:24
Hey everyone, Happy Thursday. Welcome to so what marketing analytics and insights live show from TrustInsights.ai. I am joined by my dog apparently Chris, and john, this week we are talking about, about evaluating your 2020. Like what happened and making it 2021 decision. So we’re going to walk through, you know developing a so what mentality? Why do we care about this thing. We’re going to talk about how you can use the data that you have. And then we’re going to show you some other advanced techniques. And then we’re going to talk about making decisions and taking action. And so just as a note, this is our last show of 2020. Because next week is Christmas Eve. And the week after that TrustInsights.ai offices are closed, we all need a break. So please, enjoy show up 2020. Chris, what’s on tap first?
Christopher Penn 1:17
Alright, so let’s talk about what happens. So the place that we want to start with anything is to figure out what exactly happened this year. We know the macro big picture stuff, but we want to specifically look at our data. And the thought we had for the show was to make it kind of like almost like a staff meeting like you get a chance to sit in essentially one of our marketing staff meetings to figure out what, what are we going to look at for the previous year. So we’ll look at a couple of things. The data we’re going to look at comes from Google Analytics. And if you don’t have more advanced tools, Google’s advanced assisted conversion software is pretty good. Right? So it’ll give you a sense of like what from from the conversions, you have set the goals you have set up? What things delivered? And what kinds of conversions do they deliver. So here we’re looking at, this is the Trust Insights profile, we chose our goal, our thank you page goal, the crank the look back window to 90 days, because we want to, we know that we have very long sales cycle, 90 days is about the length, like go and have the date set from April 1 onwards. Again, big picture is kind of a crazy year. And so things that happened before April, really that world is kind of God, right, we all stopped going to conferences, for example. So things that worked really well for like going to Social Media Marketing World in March didn’t really happen. After that it did but in virtual formats. So when we look at our conversions here, I switch to source medium, you can use your channel groupings, if you want. But I would strongly suggest that as we move into Google Analytics for where channel groupings are gone, that you just get comfortable with source medium. If you want to look at just sort of a high level view, you could just use medium, for example, but I like source medium. So what we see here, we see some email newsletters, sort of topping the charts there for both assisted and last touch conversions. organic search, more email, we see some social media stuff, speaking, still a mix, Slack, more social media stuff and LinkedIn. Now, these are for conversions. And so got to look at this and say, Well, what did we do this year? Katie, do you? I mean, it’s been such a this decade that was 2020.
Katie Robbert 3:37
What do we do the seeker know and we know from our own, you know, day to day tactics, we send, you know, our weekly newsletters, we work on our SEO, and we do put some effort into organic social. And quite honestly, that’s really our current mix. And so what we see is reflective of what we’ve done this year, which is good. And so the first question is, so what, you know, it’s great to look at this information. But if you’re not going to change any of the things that you’re doing, then don’t bother. Um, you know, and that’s the way that we’re trying to think about because you can get that analysis paralysis of it’s the end of the year, I have to review everything, I have to look at all of the stuff that I’ve done, I have to get my hands on every single metric possible. But so what are you going to do anything with that information? Are you going to make decisions? Are you going to change course, going to set budgets, if you’re not, then save yourself the headache and don’t do that don’t look at that information. Like it’s, it’s or if you just have time, like the nice to have, that’s great, but making the hardcore decisions. Don’t bother. So with this, you know, Chris and john, what I would probably say is we’re doing pretty good on Google organic, there’s more that we could be doing. Um, we definitely want to keep Keep all of our newsletters at the cadence they’re at. Um, and then we probably want to do a little bit more with social put a little bit more of a concerted effort behind it, the thing we know we’re not doing is we’re not running any paid ads. So to see that pop up would be odd. So that might be something that we might consider doing moving into the new year.
Christopher Penn 5:20
Yeah, the other thing I want to call out is Google provides a ratio here of assistant to last touch and as such as the number of assisted conversions divided by the number of last touch conversions, that number tells you a little bit about the messaging on that channel. Is that channel a transactional channel where that’s the last thing that you’ll notice somebody over the finish line? Or is it play a role earlier in the customer journey? And what we see here is there’s some channels like this one here, my social media, my personal social media, as a ratio of 4.5. So it helps many more conversions than it is the last nudge across the finish line. So from that perspective, I should be thinking about Okay, maybe, instead of sharing, you know, book an appointment with John Wall right now, maybe I should be sharing more of just like Trust Insights, blog content, since clearly, that’s an introductory channel, that’s a channel where like, yeah, there’s that it’s not the lesson somebody does. On the other hand, when I look at my almost timely newsletter, that’s a point seven, you know, that there’s more conversions happen to us. So that’s the place where it’s like, yeah, book a call with John Wall right now. Because clearly people there in that channel, they know who we are, they know, you know, they’re willing to do some conversion, where I think it gets interesting is when it’s about even like ours, like slack down here, slack is about even on the total number conversion. So that’s one where we have to do some more testing, I think to say like, okay, is it better suited as a conversion channel? Is it better suited as a, an awareness channel. And the real challenge with that, one, is the fact that you can have a direct messaging session with somebody and actually get them to close the deal. And none of that will ever show up in here, because you’re not clicking through to a website and stuff. So there’s, there’s some oddities there. But you’re right, we don’t do any paid. I’m honestly surprised. In this map, that you know, the very basic map, that more social stuff isn’t showing up. And a big part of that is because this doesn’t take into account all the different ways that somebody can interact with us. So for that, we would use a technique that we call Markov chain modeling. And what this does is it allows us to see those two types of conversions, merge them together and say, Okay, what was the most important thing that you know, that push people over the finish line? So we see here, again, almost timely, in the headlights, email. We’re pretty clear on this. This is the you know, this, this so far passes the sniff test. Interestingly, Facebook shows up now is number five, because apparently, it’s playing such a significantly greater role on awareness that it doesn’t show up in Google’s version of this, but it’s number five on our chart. And so the question I have there is, oh, I mean, we don’t really do much with Facebook, Dewey.
Katie Robbert 8:08
Well, we’re live on Facebook right now.
Christopher Penn 8:11
Yep, exactly. And I think that’s probably some of what’s happening. We see LinkedIn there, as well. We see our Slack, Twitter is in there. And then we see some other stuff, we see marketing over coffee, but it’s middle we see the IBM community. And there, we see business wires, a Talkwalker, our partner Talkwalker. So when you use a more advanced attribution model, you get a better sense of Okay, what what’s really going on under the hood? And from this, I would say, you know, we are probably doing okay, with social What if I go to just a channel level view, social is actually the second largest converting shot above organic, and to me that says, Yeah, we really need to
Unknown Speaker 8:56
Katie Robbert 9:01
You were gonna say,
John Wall 9:02
No, I was just organic. I mean, that just jumped right out. I mean, no, because we see a lot of clients where that organic is their number one and by a longshot, and that’s usually the first thing we’re telling people is like, but uh, you can’t have your whole bread basket relying on Google not changing the algorithm this week.
Katie Robbert 9:17
It’s true. And the other thing I wanted to point out, Chris, if you go back to the other view of this chart is one of the things that we do to sort of help bring that awareness is we cross post on all of our different properties. And so seeing marketing over coffee on there, makes sense because john does throw out those links to Trust Insights, either through his social channels or through his newsletter, you know, and Chris, your personal website and your personal email. Of course, first offense is and by first I would expect if we ran this for your site, then you would also see in the headlights, which is the Trust Insights, and that’s the kind of link swapped It awareness that we would hope to see by taking that tactic as well. So if you have multiple properties, or if you have other partners, you know, you want to make sure that you’re getting that, that traffic back as well.
Christopher Penn 10:12
So Katie, that’s a really important point that, you know, we have a network of sites working for us, should we build additional sites next year?
Katie Robbert 10:23
I really think it depends on the goal, like what would be the goal of having additional properties. And so if you wanted to build out a Learning Academy, for example, that was separate from the main TrustInsights.ai website, which is essentially just a marketing brochure with some calls to action, then I think that would make sense. And then you could link the two back to each other, you know, so I think that there’s reasons to build additional properties, but you need to make sure that you’re doing it, not just to do it to have other properties, because then what ends up happening is then you just have other websites to maintain and to do the SEO on and to, you know, newsletters that you have to manage, and you’re just creating extra work yourself. So do it with purpose.
Christopher Penn 11:07
What about a news portal that was automated, since we already curate the news for our blog for our newsletters, something that we have Trust Insights dot news, which is a link shortener, what if we were to offer, you know, just have out there, again, purely for organic search purposes, but using that as a as a fourth site next year, to try and create a reasonably valuable but automated portal of here’s what the here’s the news stuff that we’re tracking.
Katie Robbert 11:34
So that my first question to you, Chris would be why wouldn’t we just build it within our own site? Why would we need a whole new site for that?
Christopher Penn 11:44
That’s a good question. Two things come to mind. One is it would be a lot of noise, we a lot of stuff that would make it very difficult for someone to find things on our website, we’re talking probably 70 to 90 posts a day of stuff, that would be that because that’s we’re pulling from 1400 blogs in order to curate our news. And we would set up a scoring threshold, I can only set you know, show articles of a score above this amount. So it’s not crazy, but would still be a tremendous amount of volume. And the second is, you know, as we see with marketing over coffee, and as we know, from all the stuff with Google search algorithms, Google is looking for sites to be very clear about their purpose, our corporate site, the purpose of it is to emphasize our marketing analytics services. Our website is not a news site. But Trust Insights. dot news, by definition is a news site. And so we have a very clear purpose and all the search and all the intent there would be that. And then the goal of it would be to generate email subscriptions to in the headlights drive pipeline, and, and provide a ideally a higher ranking site that could then pass links to marketing over coffee and Trust insights.ai and Katie robear.com, and Christopher Penn that kind of make it part of the mesh of these different sites. So I think there’s an interesting opportunity, especially since one of the themes that I got, I know we’re gonna hear a lot in the next year is do more with what you already have, you know, don’t be don’t try and you know, buy a million dollar CDP upfront. Like, squeeze the as much juice as it can. So if we did that with a database that we’re already maintaining on a website that we’re already maintaining, we could be leveraging that data to greater benefit without substantial extra cost.
John Wall 13:36
Yeah, that’s it’s funny. I think that there’s some interesting challenges and risks around that. But it’s definitely better than my idea of Trust Insights, French fried chicken. So I mean,
Christopher Penn 13:49
I like fried chicken. I
John Wall 13:50
know, everyone knows fried chicken, but it’s just it’s hard to tie that back to marketing analytics.
Christopher Penn 13:55
Yeah. Okay. So let’s move on for a second. And talk about the content of 2020. So this is, again, you can do this same general thing with Google Analytics content for site, just you know what content got the most traffic. And that’s not a bad thing to do. In fact, we can pull it up here. If you go into behavior, just go to site content, all pages. And Wow, that’s a lot of go away. We can see at the top content from a yo which is what thing has got eyeballs and traffic this year. But one of the things again, using that same type of machine learning model we want to look at is what content actually helped convert. And that’s where we get into this the the most valuable pages. And there’s some similarities social media audience trends during pandemic our white paper with Talkwalker was our number one converter. Our LinkedIn job hunting, webinars are number two in the headlights the company homepage, the data science 101 event we did with IBM earlier the year. Our meta page, where can I get the slides are competitive social media analytics strategy masterclass that we did with Agorapulse is on here. So there’s a lot of very current stuff, which is good, it means that all the stuff that we spent our time and effort on during 2020 is showing up at the top of the chart, like if this is all posts in 2017, I’d be like, well, we just wasted the year.
Katie Robbert 15:24
Well, and to that to what we would want to see on there is our blog, which we publish three times a week, and also our contact form, which to us is a key page. So in addition to all of these downloadable resources, you want to see the pages with direct calls to action, for people to come directly to you. And so newsletter signup, contact forms, those kinds of things, you absolutely want to be seeing those on a report like this.
Christopher Penn 15:51
So when you look at this, Katie, what what do you the things that you You seem like what should we not be doing? Or what are we doing not enough of,
Katie Robbert 16:00
you know, every time we take a look at this, the trend that sticks out is that original research. And so the thing that really converts people, or helps people decide that they want to spend their time with us is the original research that we provide. And so moving into next year, what I would say is, we should definitely figure out, you know, which of our partners are interested in doing more original research, you know, can we use their data to then analyze? Or should we be publishing, you know, just our own original research with our own resources, whatever that looks like. So those are the kinds of things that I would definitely say, should be on our roadmap, maybe once a quarter, because you know, it’s not a light lift by any means. But we can take a look at which of the research papers what topics were the most popular? And is it time for just a refresh? Does that make it a little bit of a lighter lift? So those are the kinds of, you know, details that you can then dig into, as well.
Christopher Penn 16:58
I see looking at this list, social media is still like the hot thing, which is astonishing, you know, 15 years after we started talking about social media, and data science are seem to be the things that get people clicking the most. JOHN, what about you? What do you what do you see, it’s not on here that you would expect, you know, a company like ours, what, what else should be on here?
John Wall 17:21
Well, the one that gets me is that’s there, and I wasn’t expecting to see is the Where can I get the slides, in spite of events being destroyed this year, that still comes up, we’re on the top of the list. So either you were totally awesome. And first quarter, or the webinars and stuff are working for the rest of the year, both of which, which are fantastic. But so that was that was good to see, as far as stuff I don’t see on there. You know, I don’t know this is the right mix of all original research stuff, the About Us the team page, getting up there into that top rung is the kind of thing that you’d love to see from an established site, you know, and so I’d like to see more of that, because we got number four, you got the homepage to it. And that’s, as I’m saying this, I’m totally talking myself out of it, we’ve got contact and blog. So that’s pretty good. We do have those key things. But that’s, you know, as your site gets established, you’re hoping to have at least 25% of the ones on this page be pages that are just always up on your site and always grinding out traffic. So you’re not chained into that. Oh, my God, we got to come up with something awesome, again, this quarter to feed this.
Christopher Penn 18:25
Yeah, I mean, I, I do see others. Also, a couple of services pages in here, too, which again, is really good to see we have a Google Analytics for readiness. And we have tech stack audit and repair and stuff. So in terms of AI that aligns well with what we’ve seen with our customers, so when you’re doing this research for yourself on your own site, you should be looking at this with an eye towards Are these the pages that help drive conversions? Are they aligned with what you’d want to see? Are they a good mix of things? Or are things not looking healthy? Let’s see if I can find an example of something that’s less healthy. Because, well, I, there’s this stuff. Here, this one from my website. This is a little concerning to me, because a lot of the posts that are sort of at the top here, older content, right? means that, you know, 2020 wasn’t a great year for my personal website. There’s still a lot of stuff that you’ll like starting your public speaking career and stuff like that. Two concerns I had there one, I’m not a like speaking coach, right? That’s not what I do. And yet people are going to these pages to find so yes, it’s those pages may be well optimized those search terms, but they also may be irrelevant in attracting the wrong audience. And to again, there’s not a lot of 2020 content on here. So it’s like, yeah, I think from a person perspective, I might have a problem on my site.
Katie Robbert 19:49
Well, and I think the other thing that as you’re evaluating, you know, what pieces of content, you should also start sort of thinking about how much time am I spending creating this content. And so, you know, Chris, I know that you’ve talked about your your daily process in terms of creating your blog every day. And so if it’s, you know, 10 minutes a day, then it’s probably not that big of a deal. And you can just sort of pivot some of the topics. But if you’re spending hours a day trying to publish a new piece of content, you know, daily or weekly, or every day, whatever it is, and it’s, then it’s not showing up, then you have an even bigger problem. So, in addition to evaluating which content, also think about the time spent, are you doing tons of research? Are you paying, you know, outside writers? Maybe it’s time for some guest posts? Who knows?
Christopher Penn 20:39
Yeah, I mean, I’m thinking looking at this. As much as I enjoy doing it, it might be time to sunset, but you ask I answer series, because again, it’s not the top of the charts here. And maybe, you know, we looking at that, you know, from a strategic and data perspective, it doesn’t look great for that series.
Katie Robbert 20:59
Well, and I think you also have to evaluate, you know, how that type of information gets disseminated to people have to go to your website to get the full content? Or can they just see the full content on a different social media channel or on your YouTube channel, so they can bypass your website altogether? So those are all considerations in terms of your strategy.
Christopher Penn 21:21
That’s a really good point. Because when I look at the digital customer journey from my site, you know, YouTube, it definitely is in the top 10. Which means that Yeah, there could be a substantial amount of content consumption there. And that’s violating one of our first rules of social media, which is never built on rented land, you should always be building your best stuff on your site. So it might be 2021 might be the least from my personal upset the return of the blog, and then possibly looking at pivoting away from building on Google Sites, building on Facebook sites and things still doing stuff like live streams and things but and that’s something that we have to give some thought about for, for Trust Insights to know how much are we building on our site? versus how much are we building on other people’s properties that we don’t own, we have no control over.
Katie Robbert 22:09
I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, one of the things we always tell people is really focus on the digital channels that you own. And so that’s your site, your content, your blog, your newsletter, you know, I’ve seen a lot of people who will post these, like long winded novels on social media. And that never makes it back to their website. And so people don’t have to go to a website in order to get the information they need. It’s all on Instagram, or it’s all on Facebook. And then those sites are getting all of the, you know, credit or juice or whatever you want to call it.
Christopher Penn 22:45
Yep, yeah, in fact, I had lunch with somebody earlier this years, you know, they were posting like 12 page like diatribes on Facebook, like, shouldn’t that be in like an email newsletter or something? So, for 2021, then what do we think about this, we’ve had a chance to review our content, we’ve had a chance to review our channels. What is the the mix? What are you thinking, Katie, in terms of the where we should take the company from a external marketing perspective?
Katie Robbert 23:14
You know, I think one of the things that we’ve done this year by choice is we have streamlined our blog. So we do it three times a week. But it’s either automated content, or it’s recycled content. Meaning that the blog on Wednesday is just a posting of the podcast and the blog on Friday, is a posting of this live stream. And the blog on Monday is a roundup of curated news articles. And so we’re actually actively not taking a lot of time to do our blog anymore. We’re focusing more on that original research, we’re focusing more on video content. And so that might be something to evaluate, because what we see on that most valuable pages is just blog. And then we see a couple of individual blog posts. But for the most part, it’s all of our resources and services that are driving those conversions. And so we either have to make the choice of we continue to automate most of our blog, or we spend a little time and do some testing to see if original content on the blog would drive more conversions. And if not, we go back to just automating all of it.
Christopher Penn 24:21
Yeah, so how are we going to approach this? what’s what’s our first steps? Do you think?
Katie Robbert 24:26
I think our first step is to put together some kind of a content calendar, what the heck do we want to even write about? And that’s where we would pull in some of that SEO data to see what are we currently known for, versus what do we want to be known for? So there’s, you know, you want to optimize, you want to use that information to optimize your website, but you also want to reserve some of that information if you’re going to be creating a content calendar. So you’re not competing against yourself for the same terms. And so that’s where I would start is I would start to figure out, you know, one, how much time do we have to dedicate to creating original blog post every week, there is a reason why we stopped doing it and move to the methodology that we’re doing now. So do we have that time back? Did it magically suddenly appear again? So that’s question number one. Question number two is what the heck do we want to write about? And can we look back at older blog posts to see what was working to start to figure out what we want to do moving forward. And then number three, is we just have to do the thing, we have to write it.
Christopher Penn 25:25
One of the things sticks out to me that, you know, if we didn’t, we’re gonna go way back in time here to 2008. Our friend and former CEO, Todd deferent, had coined the term content optimization way, way, way back then of saying, like, take a piece of content, blow it up with a bunch of little pieces. And it occurs to me that we have not we do create a lot of that content every week already. If you read the Trust Insights newsletter, you’ve got an original blog post, functionally, at the top of every newsletter, you’ve got a piece of original research, every in every newsletter, maybe one of the things we think about is, you know, going back and changing our process to say, the newsletter goes out on Wednesdays. And that’s the exclusive for people who subscribe to the newsletter, which you can get at TrustInsights.ai dot AI slash newsletter, and then maybe the following week, that cold open becomes a blog post. And then at the following week, they will that last week’s data just kind of like, you know, it’s like fish, because it’s best when it’s fresh, becomes a blog post of its own, because it is keyword rich, and we’re doing the research anyway. And maybe that’s an opportunity, especially since we don’t really have you and john involved in the in the content production process as much, maybe it’s an opportunity for you to take the content from the newsletter, and then append it and add your own interpretation to it. And then that becomes the blog post the following week. Again, we’re not trying to drastically increase the amount of work we’ll have to do we’re trying to repurpose the stuff that’s already there. But maybe that’s part of the testing plan to say, how do we take these these engines that we’ve already built, and and put a body in some seats and a steering wheel on them?
Katie Robbert 27:03
I think that that’s a smart approach. And that’s a smart approach for any organization who is spending the time to create that original content. So think about where can people get it exclusively? versus Where can they get it, you know, anyone can get that access to that information? And is there an opportunity, you know, to repurpose some of that information. Now, john, I know you don’t have a blog, on the marketing over coffee website, but you do send out a newsletter. And you know, people who who have subscribed to the newsletter, obviously, get all of the content when you send it, but maybe, you know, it’s an opportunity to post older editions of the newsletter or snippets of content from those newsletters, you know, originally seen in newsletter addition, whatever it is, sign up here. And so maybe that, you know, for a site like yours that doesn’t have a blog, but you have a website and content, that might be an opportunity. And so just sort of thinking through Chris, building on that idea of repurposing work you’ve already done. How can people do it? in all different kinds of scenarios? And so obviously, you know, I’m calling out marketing over coffee, because the site functions differently than the Trust Insights website. But that doesn’t mean you can’t take the same kind of approach.
John Wall 28:16
Yeah, definitely. Because with the audio focus there, I mean, really, the website traffic is almost insignificant, you know, really, it’s, it’s one of those properties where, you know, people are coming to us from Spotify and Apple Music and all these other places. And so the website really doesn’t get any activity. So yeah, maybe switching to a daily news and just having the podcast be one day of that touch. That’s another interesting angle to explore. But I don’t know in my mind, the data is pretty clear that fried chicken is where we eat. So just to play crazy senior executive today, that’s my
Katie Robbert 28:48
What about the vegans?
Christopher Penn 28:51
There’s vegan chicken.
Unknown Speaker 28:54
Christopher Penn 28:56
If you ever watched Sean Evans hot wings, the Oh the Hollywood stars, who are vegans, like they get the vegan wings. It’s like It’s like a ball of something on a stick.
John Wall 29:06
And it is on a stick. It has like a phone a foe bone. Yeah, cuz
Katie Robbert 29:13
you guys are making this sounds so incredibly appetizing. I think. I think that means that we are coming to the end of our last episode for 2020. We will be back the first week of January 2021. Um, but yeah, I think that we have done our own testing with this live show, to see and I think Chris, what you were just showing in our customer journey is that by going live on Facebook and other channels, those channels are bringing more awareness, which is great. That’s where we want social media in our customer journey.
Christopher Penn 29:47
Exactly. So we have we have that there. We are going to try and squeeze more out of the content. We’re already creating, you know, atomizing and splitting it up and things like that. I would say for anybody who is looking at the content You’re creating and trying to figure out because you’re gonna be asked next year, how can you do more with less? How can you get more juice to the squeeze? If you’ve got a piece of anchor content, like a live stream, or a podcast or a newsletter in our case, how can you split that up, not sacrifice quality, in fact, increase the quality of your anchor content, and then break it up into pieces. So that’s more evenly distributed and shares. I think that would be a sensible way to scale some of the stuff that way will still give you time to produce those big hero pieces of content once a quarter or maybe once a month.
Katie Robbert 30:36
I agree. I think that that’s sound advice. do more with less. Good luck, do
Christopher Penn 30:41
more with less or just do more. Thanks to everybody who has been part of the show this year. We have had a great time doing it with you. And please feel free to you know, stay tuned in. We hope you have a safe and happy and healthy holiday season and we’ll see you all in 2021. Thanks for watching today. Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you’re watching it. For more resources. And to learn more. Check out the Trust Insights podcast at Trust insights.ai slash ti podcast and a weekly email newsletter at Trust insights.ai slash newsletter. got questions about what you saw in today’s episode. Join our free analytics for markers slack group at Trust insights.ai slash analytics for marketers. See you next time.
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