So What? How do I prep my data for analysis – part 4

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In this week’s episode of So What? we focus on Core Web Vitals in Search Console. We walk through what they are and why you need to factor them into your SEO plan moving forward. Catch the replay here:

So What? How do I prep my data for analysis part 4

In this episode you’ll learn: 

  • how to make decisions with your data
  • when to revise your analysis plan
  • how to iterate your analysis

Upcoming Episodes:

  • Podcast Advertising – 2/25/2021
  • How do you benchmark a website’s performance? – TBD
  • Auditing Tag Manager – TBD


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AI-Generated Transcript:

Katie Robbert 0:22
Well, Hey everyone, Happy Thursday. Welcome to so what marketing insights, analytics and insights live show from Our it’s our weekly Thursday 1pm Eastern show joined by Chris and john this week, we are wrapping up the Data, Data Prep for analysis series that we’ve been doing for the past three weeks. If you missed the previous episodes, you can find them on our YouTube channel, Trust slash YouTube. This week, we’re wrapping it up with the so what of the So what now that we’ve done the analysis now that we’ve now that we’ve like, figured out what’s in the box, what the heck do you do with it? And that’s the piece that we just want to make sure that we’re covering so. So what Chris?

Christopher Penn 1:04
Well, before we talk about so what let’s review where we’ve been, because it’s it has been a bit of a journey. And for folks who are tuning in for the first time just getting caught up quickly. We started out three weeks ago, looking at an attribution analysis on a website to see what social media channels were working for driving conversions on my personal blog. And we set up saying, okay, we looked at the sources, we took out the obvious ones right now email search, and of the channels that were left Twitter was the the highest ranking channel in terms of Hey, this, this appears to have generated at least something. So that got us asking, okay, well, what could we learn about Twitter? What can we figure out what works on Twitter, so that we could do more of the things that work and less than things that don’t work? And so that was our goal, our strategy was, okay, what could we take from Twitter data, and turn it into something maybe useful? And we went through this process of getting the data out Twitter, cleaning it up, looking at for anomalies, trying to figure out if we had the data, we needed to answer the question, then we prepared it. We did a lot of feature engineering on it. And we modeled it. And what happened at the end of last week’s episode was a big, great pile of nothing. We ended up with an analysis using IBM Watson Studio that showed there, isn’t there there. Right? There’s there’s no data available that it was a strong enough conclusion said yes. This is the thing that is the answer for sure. So we’re now left with kind of a quandary, which is, what do we do? Right. But so what doesn’t exist? Because there isn’t viable enough data in what we’ve done. So there’s a couple of different choices that we could take care of one, we could ask ourselves, did we have the right goal and strategy to begin with? If it you know, was that even the right question to be asking, what do you think K is? If you’ve got the attribution analysis that says, you know, maybe see what’s going on with Twitter? What do you think?

Katie Robbert 3:18
Well, I think you’re exactly right, Chris, the first thing I would do if my analysis came up empty, is I would go back to my requirements, and see if that’s where, you know, I got it wrong. So, you know, to your point, am I asking the right questions? Do I care about the right things? And so, Chris, I believe you were trying to figure out, you know, what leads to Twitter engagement? Or what leads to link clicks? And so some a form of engagement? You know, is that the thing you should care about the most? And do you need to step backward to see where Twitter fits into your customer journey overall, is even the right channel to be looking at. And I think that that’s such an important step. Because if you didn’t do the business requirements to begin with, you have nothing to go back to, to say, are we answering the question being asked?

Christopher Penn 4:09
Yep. And so it turns out that I did some analysis on the site. And it turns out that yes, Link clicks are the probably the best way to judge Twitter’s direct impact on marketing, because certainly, we want to make sure that we’re, we’re getting traffic that converts. But there is something to it. We’ve seen this with a couple of our clients, where just the impressions do help reinforce brand a little bit. so in this situation, the goal, we could possibly change the gold strategy, and I think that would be worth exploring maybe in a subsequent episode, okay, what like how would we change our analytical approach? The other thing is, if you’re pretty sure that you’ve got the right strategy in the right goals, and the data is not good enough. If you’ve got, if you’ve if you’ve communicated well to stakeholders, you can say, okay, of the analysis analyses that we’ve done, which one is the least bad, right? What is the least bad? And and what do we do with that? So I’ll show you a quick example here. Let’s go ahead and minimize this, and this and bring over our test results. So these are three different analyses that show the error rate, the root mean squared error, and the R squared error. And for those who are not familiar with statistics, r squared is essentially the How well does this explain what happened? And RMSE is a relative numbers thing. There’s a lot of, you know, how well does it fit to the the regression that you’ve done? In? These are three different models that we’ve run? And we see two models had closer performance, not great, still not really explained in the model well, but lower error rates. so in this situation, as long as we are able to, I guess, spend some time communicating to stakeholders properly. This is not the answer. The data doesn’t support the answer. There’s nothing we can immediately lead to from here. But it gives us some things to test, it gives us future hypotheses to construct for testing purposes, then you can still make use of this data, even though it’s not great. So in this analysis, we have low statistical strength. It says that what causes link clicks, impressions, likes retweets, detail expands user profile clicks, proper nouns, I added some new features last week on all different parts of speech to see maybe it’s how I’m saying things instead of what I’m saying. URL count handle count. And what we’ve got here, some things are directly under my control, right? I can’t control how many times somebody likes something, I can’t control how many times somebody retweets something, beyond asking people to retweet my stuff, I can sort of influence detail expands by including like a photo, or a video or my tweets, because it required you to detail expand. And I absolutely can control number of things like proper nouns that I use in my tweets, or the number of conjunctions or adjectives. So at this point, we can say, well, let’s construct construct some hypotheses. Based on what I’ve just listed out, what would you What do you guys think for a reasonable hypothesis to test?

Katie Robbert 7:50
I mean, so you covered a lot of ground right there. So that, I think it’s sort of the, oh, my mind is a little bit blown by what you’ve done. So in terms of a reasonable, reasonable hypothesis, you know, you’ve talked about, you know, parts of speech, and you know, the way in which you’re talking about it. And so, I think that, starting there, if that seems to be giving you more insight into what makes someone click on something, so, you know, for example, if you say, hey, click on this link, super direct, you know, then does that make someone click on the link versus? So I did this really cool thing? And let me tell a story. And at no point do you ever say the call to action, click on a link to someone click on the link. So that might be a place to start is with the actual the way in which you’re saying it the call to action itself? Do you say, you know, click here to learn more click on this link? Or, you know, do you leave that out? And people just naturally take that step? Because they’re interested in the story that you’re telling? Okay.

John Wall 8:56
Well, the other side is data set to write I mean, because we this is our house data, our stuff, would we want to take another completely different data set and see, you know, has somebody else cracked the code? Does someone else get different results? Or do we see that this is something you know, everybody’s getting similar results across the whole universe?

Christopher Penn 9:15
That’s a really good point. Because one of the things that we could check is using certain software like social media monitoring software, I could try to pull out the number of tweets of people who’ve mentioned me and do the do a side by side comparison. Maybe other people talking about me, is more influential than me talking about myself. Now, there was there’s another thing that’s really important in here, and that’s that there’s some missing things. One of the things that we were not able to get, and actually tried doing it early, and I’ve run into some issue data problems is that we never validated just how often am I sharing URLs to my own website, because if I never share them, of course, I’m not going to get any link clicks and therefore, the analysis is actually kind of pointless because you’re trying to measure something that doesn’t exist. On the other hand, if all I share are links to my website, then that would be a more cogent analysis. In this case, I don’t share enough my website, I share it, you know, maybe one or two links a day, because everything else I’m sharing is either curated content or stuck to the Trust Insights website. And so already, the analysis, that’s part of the reason why it’s so thin is that I’m not promoting myself enough, I need to be more of an egomaniac.

Katie Robbert 10:29
Oh, goody.

Christopher Penn 10:36
When we do hypothesis testing, one of the things that people screw up the most by far is multiple conditional hypotheses, which is a terrible idea and multiple variable things. So trying to do too many things at once, in this case, an easy thing that would be under my control that has a real 6% relevance to the outcome that we care about is the use of proper nouns. So I could set up a basic hypothesis if because hypotheses are always if then statements that are provably true or false. If I increase my usage of proper nouns by 20%, in my tweets, then I should see a 20% increase in the number of URL clicks. That’s that seemed like a reasonable hypothesis.

Katie Robbert 11:19
It does. You know, it’ll be interesting, if you do that, to see how you start talking to you about yourself in the third person. And so I can see why that would be, you know, like, it makes sense as a hypothesis, but then an execution, you know, you have to think about what that looks like. Because if you’re tweeting from your account about you, and the third person, will people think you’ve lost your mind,

Christopher Penn 11:43
people already. But the proper noun doesn’t have to be me, it can be any named entity. So one of the things that this then opens up for questioning is, am I sharing the right kind of content? Right? Should I be creating content that does name check, you know, or name dropping things more often? That would make logical sense. So like, for example, right now, I’m in the middle of working on a blog post on how Google works, right? So I’ve got this gigantic, huge, long blog post that’s talking about, like how Google collects information. I should be thinking about even in my content here, do I need to? How should I name check Google in here? Because Google’s a proper noun? And should I be increasing the number of these in the headline because the headline automatically gets fed into our Twitter posting software to increase the content? So even something as simple as you know, which a part of speech in an analysis like this could lead to sort of a ripple effect in our content strategy?

Katie Robbert 12:51
Well, you know, and it’s interesting, because when you say proper name, my first thought is, are you you know, calling out your friends to get them to then click on the link? Or are you using their handles who tagged them? So if you’re using the example of Google, is it enough to just mention Google in the tweet itself? Or do you also need to include their handle, and those are two different tests?

Christopher Penn 13:14
They are in fact, line 10 is the number of handles in a in a tweet, and that has less relevance. So at least according to this, this statistically shaky analysis, compared to the just the use of the proper nouns in general, the other thing that really surprised me was that things like replying to people stuff didn’t really seem to have an impact, you know. So you would think one of the things I love to talk about what social media marketing is, is all about engagement. It’s all about conversation, you know, return on, who is it return on engagement, return on conversation return on, you know, basically anything, that’s not the actual ROI formula. And, in this case, for my data, the way I use Twitter with a caveat that I’ve got everybody’s unique, and I do things differently, those conversations don’t seem to play a role. The other thing that I thought was really strange, and is an avenue for investigation is I went through we looked through two weeks ago, and we tagged our topics, right, you know, the tweets about marketing and data and social analytics and stuff like that. No impact is up. So one of the questions we have to ask him that this is going right back to our exploratory data analysis is are we even talking about the right things on social media? Right, if it’s not generating results, there could be a number of things really wrong here.

Katie Robbert 14:43
Well, and for me, it brings up another question of so your audience size and who makes up that audience and so are you followed by, you know, a bunch of random people who don’t care about you? Your personal website, your personal brand? Or are you followed by the right audience? And does the size of the audience matter? If they’re highly engaged? I think one of the things that we’ve talked about is as long as you have the right people following your stuff that engage with it, then you know, having a million followers doesn’t really matter if you have 100 of the right people. And so where does that fit into this analysis?

Christopher Penn 15:27
It doesn’t. And that’s one of the challenges with this particular data set is that this measures the what happened, right, and so we have those three, what’s what happened? So what now what we’re at the sowhat phase, and things like audience composition are not something that we’ve we’ve been, you could build into this model, because this model is purely looking at the what happened to social media engagement, the who was going to a very different question. In terms of how you would measure that, one of the things you probably want to look at would be collecting all of your social media mentions and conversations and things like that from your, your monitoring software. And then going through and classifying categorizing like yes, this person, you know, based on their bio, is somebody that I would want to be engaging with this person is not. So there are tools that you can use that will take a set of Twitter handles and append, the biographies, the people’s bios of that, and you could then very simply go through and and tag anybody who’s got, you know, marketing in their bio, like, yeah, that person, somebody, I want my artist aliases, like, you know, you know, Cam star like, yeah, Nope. Not interested in that, and that kind of person. Based on that, you could work out an audience composition. But that goes back to our original question, which is, do we have the right goal and strategy and part of that is knowing what’s not going to be in the data and will never be in this particular data set?

Katie Robbert 16:57
I would argue with you a little bit on that. I think that the goal and strategy isn’t the thing that changes, it’s your data requirements that changes in order to answer the question. And so, you know, if the export from Twitter straight out of the box isn’t going to answer the question about audience, for example, then what other data Can you pull? That would answer that question. So the goal and the strategy doesn’t change the requirements for your data changes? And so I do think it’s interesting that because now we’re talking about a different kind of analysis, you’re talking about your, you know, for lack of a better term, the influencer map of who’s the most talked about, and then seeing if engaging with those people increases your engagement.

Christopher Penn 17:41
Yep. And that’s where then you start to get into some really, really interesting questions about who is in that audience? Because and what kinds of people they are not, you know, good or bad people. Just, you know, for example, when I, we, we operate a bunch of Twitter scripts, and one of the things that we look at from things like marketing, Twitter, which is a popular hashtag, is what is the likelihood based on performance that an account is automated, let’s go ahead and sort through this year. And so there are some accounts that we’ve been able to figure out based on their behavior and performance. Yeah, this account is pretty clearly just a button, all it does is is you know, hit copy paste in an automated fashion all the time. By the way, if anybody who is watching this video, who’s this is your Twitter handle? I’m sorry, but your account looks like it’s a bot.

Katie Robbert 18:32
Well, you do actually have an account in there online for digital bot retweet. So that is a literal bot.

Christopher Penn 18:40
At least you know, the software’s working. But then you combine this with things like the biographies that people are providing, and be able to say like, yeah, this is definitely something where you know, this account is not probably going to add a whole lot of value to our audience, right? If it’s a bot, doesn’t matter whether it engages or not, because they are never going to buy anything.

Katie Robbert 19:04
Or for you know, to play devil’s advocate, if you do if you are followed, like by an account, like digital bot retweet is the act of that bot, retweeting everything that you tweet and reaching their audience and therefore the likelihood that people might engage with it?

Christopher Penn 19:22
Yep. When you look in what you get out of Twitter’s API, you actually get a decent amount of stuff that you could make those decisions on. So we look at some of these BIOS some of these people might be okay like e commerce executive that person might be okay. Head of SEO at this company might be okay. person here with lyrics from the Bob Dylan’s Watchtower. Maybe not as relevant to you, we don’t know. But this would be the you know, a separate analysis on the on who is in the audience of the people who are talking to you or Talking about you.

Katie Robbert 20:02
And so where do you factor in that influencer analysis of the near miss like the, you know, the those clusters? And I know that I’ve sort of gone a little bit abstract because we haven’t talked about that kind of analysis on the show before. So can you just sort of give like a quick rundown of what that looks like?

Christopher Penn 20:22
Um, it’s cool. Yeah, it’s a network graph. So you’re building a network graph of who is the most talked about? And who does the most talking in any given environment? And then that answers the question, Who should we be talking to? Because when you’re if you’re trying to get an objective of engagement, like likes retweets, stuff like that, if we went back to this model here, retweets, you know, 10% of our of what does Dr. URL click? So if we were to go out and reach out to some of those influences, we might be able to say, Hey, could you repeat my thing? In fact, you know, there are our Twitter pods, groups of people who all agree to we retweet each other. Technically, it’s a violation of Twitter’s Terms of Service, but it is one of those things you could do. So the next step would be okay, well, then, who would we want to talk about? So let’s go ahead, see if we can do this without completely blowing up my computer at our live stream. And try to construct one of these these network maps. So we’re going to use an open source tool called giffy. It is you can find [email protected] GP H AI. And we’re going to do let’s wait in case we do Twitter marketing, Twitter chats are marketing Twitter itself.

Katie Robbert 21:52
I think the marketing Twitter itself, I mean, it’s an interesting group of folks, it’s actually gotten fairly large. So if you don’t, if you don’t know what we’re referring to, there’s a hashtag on Twitter, hashtag marketing, Twitter, that is highly engaged and is working together to create this network of people within Twitter that are all marketers that you know, engage with each other stuff and help each other find jobs, promote each other’s material. So I think that that would be a really interesting place to start.

Christopher Penn 22:22
Okay, so we’re gonna vacuum in here, how much Twitter data do we have from marketing, Twitter, we have 14 megabytes of marketing Twitter stuff, which is 122,000 tweets. And not insignificant, not insignificant. In network graphing. What we’re looking for is the connections between nodes. So if we were tweeting the three of us, and I tweeted something, and then you reply to me, and then john replied to me, in a model like this, we could construct lines, like Chris talks to Katie, he talks to chris chris talks, john, john talks to Chris. But if you and john never tweeted at each other, there would be no connection between the two. So that’s kind of how a network graph works. Now, we’re going to explode this at a much, much larger level to try and figure out just how dense is this network? And who is the most talked about? Now? One of the challenges with influencers and influencer marketing is that there’s a whole lot of people talking, right. We all know people who just love to talk to the air and just wax rhapsodic about things. But nobody’s listening. So one of the challenges that we run into is, can we prune that noise out? The people who talk just to the air and get to the people who are having actual conversations. So if we scroll down here to where this particular category, relevancy ends, you’ll see there’s some people, they’re going out and tagging and tweeting at 50 people at a time, right? But nobody talks to them. So they’re, they’re all junk. So we’re just gonna get rid of all those people. Because they’re not helpful. And now we’ll do a couple of runs of this model to see Okay, can we get to a density that is actual conversations or actual engagements, because again, we’re looking for those engagements. We want to grow our retweets. Let’s go ahead and do this one or two more times.

Katie Robbert 24:35
I would also like to point out that you have inadvertently created fictional drama between john and i, because in your in your story, john doesn’t tweet at me at all. And now we’re going to fictionally have to fight about this because why does he tweet to you but not to me?

John Wall 24:51
This is I was reading somewhere saying that like this never really exists. Like this is something they actually use for fraud detection, because that would never happen. Like If I’m always talking to Chris, and you’re always talking to Chris, we will talk to each other. That’s just like, that’s the way humans work.

Katie Robbert 25:07
I think that that’s really interesting, too, because you’re absolutely right. Like, you can see when something looks completely fishy, because it’s an unlikely scenario of things to happen. But we’re gonna fight john,

John Wall 25:21
we can fight? Well, as we’re looking at the anti gram here, it’s obvious, we’re gonna have to do some soft shoe to run.

Unknown Speaker 25:31
So, go ahead.

Katie Robbert 25:32
No, go ahead.

Christopher Penn 25:33
No, please. I’m still clicking things.

Katie Robbert 25:37
Well, so I was going to ask, you know, john, I know, like, I do a lot of automated posting through Twitter. So I use the content curation service that we have at Trust Insights. But in the past couple of months, I’ve tried to tweet a little bit more like, not live tweet, but tweet, like in the moment, something that isn’t pre scheduled to see if I can get more engagement, more followers on my account. And I know, john, you’re you’re not a heavy Twitter user at all. So when you’re sort of like seeing all this analysis and conversation, what does it make you think about your own social media strategy? Does it change anything for you?

John Wall 26:19
Well, there’s, it’s funny, we’re in this time where there’s such dramatic sea change with what’s going on with this. And I think the huge thing that gets missed with all of this, is that both Twitter and Facebook have made this transition from what was originally thought to be social networks and conversation networks, and they’ve really just become publishing platforms, you know, they’ve just become platforms that are almost broadcast. I mean, the fact that you can respond to a tweet, you know, when you look at the top 5000 Twitter accounts, if you respond to them, you’re not going to hear back, you know, the Kardashians aren’t going to talk to you about your opinion on their shoes, they just have no interest in that. So it’s a real shift. And yeah, I, I still treat a lot of these social channels as social, you know, I’m putting stuff out there. And, you know, I, if I get five replies, or five likes, that’s a huge win, because I am actually talking with those people and getting, you know, feedback from them. And I mean, even think about some of the nodes on here that we’re looking at, right? I mean, some of them are fully automated. So yeah, they look like they have a lot of impact on the map. But they’re just retweeting. And so that creates another user case to have people that follow these tweet bots, you know, is that a thing? Are there people that follow those feeds, because that’s how they learn about new stuff. And yeah, I always love how watching these things go from just a field of stars to Chris Giles, and define that perfect focus where suddenly now you can, you can you can see who the winners and losers are.

Katie Robbert 27:45
So a little bit of background. For people who don’t follow marketing, Twitter aren’t familiar with what we’re talking about. So the largest note in there is that Christina G. And so the whole marketing Twitter movement was actually started by Christina. And you can see it’s her pinned tweet from December is if you have less than 1000 followers and work in marketing in some capacity, introduce yourself to marketing Twitter. And that tweet, I continue to see every single day people engaging with retweeting it responding to it, introducing themselves becoming part of that marketing Twitter hashtag to the point where there’s a marketing Twitter hashtag on peloton, they’ve started subgroups of people who work out together, they’ve done meetups, they’ve done virtual meetups, I should say. They’re actually now talking about a marketing Twitter event in different cities. And so like it’s blown up to this big thing in just a matter of what, like 10 weeks.

Christopher Penn 28:44
Yep. So we’ve constructed our map. And we can see, you know, as john was saying, there’s some definite winners and losers. Well, let’s just say Pete more prominent notes, people who are talked about more in the marketing for the conversation, it makes total sense, the founder, there join clubhouse, the audio platform talked about so whether or not we like it, it is being talked about within this context. In fact, if you look at the spreadsheet version of this, of that lovely chart, you can see join club houses number three on the list of of accounts that people are talking about. And so we’d want to do consider, you know, taking a look at that, but also having conversations with people who are in that space.

Katie Robbert 29:28
So what’s interesting, because I do see this in my feed. The majority of people talking about about joining clubhouse are complaining about the number of invites that they have to give away. And then apparently at one point people were trying to sell invites to clubhouse so there was a lot of conversation about that and I think I saw Jennifer you know, low yesterday for example, she was complaining that she got rid of all her invites and they gave her more to give away and it became this like sort of sarcastic thread of like Now if I can’t give them away.

Christopher Penn 30:04
That’s excellent. So when it comes to then sort of this idea of influencer marketing, we want to use technologies like this to identify who are the people we need to be talking to. Now, here’s kind of a fun power tip with this. Christina. If she was somebody likes a Kardashian, and no offense, Christine, I’m sure you’re well on your way. But because we can identify people who are in her neighborhood, not physically, but conversationally, you can’t get ahold of Christina, she’s just too unobtainable, you can take that group of people that she associates with most closely and see who’s next. In line, right? This here is Michelle Garcia, right? So if we can’t get Christine’s attention, maybe we can get Michelle’s attention. Maybe she’s a more accessible person. And so now we’re starting to dig into how these network graphs actually come to life. This is the so what have a network graph. It’s cool to look at, right? Everybody loves these visualizations. You know, we do the for conferences, but the the meat potatoes is, is the so what, who do we want to talk to within Christina’s sphere, this modularity number that could get her attention?

Katie Robbert 31:25
And then that goes back to the original goal and strategy of how do you, Chris, get more clicks on the links in your Twitter posts? Well, it looks like perhaps just the data from Twitter wasn’t enough. So we took it a step farther, with that influencer marketing to see who could you be engaging with in order to get your stuff shown even more?

Christopher Penn 31:50
Exactly, right. So this sort of wraps up this overall process and how we’ve, how we’ve used it, what’s gone wrong, which I think I would actually argue that having the analysis, fail on us, was probably one of the best things that we could have demonstrated, I’ll be inadvertently and certainly not intentionally set up to fail, because it shows the incompleteness of the data that we were working with to solve this marketing problem. And now we’re at a place where, okay, there might be some additional solutions, and at the very least, some ideas, and we use the marketing data that we had available to us combined with the ideas of what else could we extend it with, to try and solve this challenge, and figure out what was missing? Forgot what we didn’t know. And give us an experimentation plan. And so the takeaways here, do this process, obviously, we cover the last four weeks, have some ideas about what could go wrong. And when you have something go wrong, obviously try and fix it. And if it turns out, like in our example, there wasn’t a fix in the data itself, then start to ask, okay, well, what are the things that we could test, knowing that the underlying statistical model still isn’t great, but we could test it, and then build hypotheses and testable experiments on top of that?

Katie Robbert 33:19
So I guess the big question, Chris, is, what are you personally going to do? About your Twitter account?

Christopher Penn 33:26
Absolutely nothing different because I don’t care enough about email marketing is 100%, you know, more effective for me? No, it’s actually, you know, 10 more effective that for me, based on the numbers, and so all of my efforts and focus and time go into making my email newsletter as as valuable as it can be, because that’s where the money is.

Katie Robbert 33:49
sounds right. Um, you know, so if you want to learn more about you know, this process, definitely check us out on our slack group. AI, slash analytics for marketers hit up Chris on Twitter, he may or may not respond to you, Chris. is about well, you know, it’s interesting. You do have a retweet bot set up. So anytime your handle handle is tagged in something and automatically retweets it. Yeah.

John Wall 34:19
I’m having the real conversations unless you’re trying to get to Katy, because we don’t talk.

Katie Robbert 34:24
We don’t talk. Let’s go into your performance review, sir.

Christopher Penn 34:31
on next week’s show, I believe Katie and john will be talking about podcast advertising. I will be overdoing a LinkedIn live show so I won’t be around. But if you want to learn how one of the longest running podcasts in marketing, marketing over coffee 15 years running, has managed to stay successful and profitable with paid sponsors every quarter for 15 years. You’re not gonna want to miss next week’s show. We’ll talk to you soon. Take care and stay safe. Thanks for watching today. Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you’re watching it. For more resources and to learn more, check out the Trust Insights podcast at Trust slash t AI podcast and a weekly email newsletter at Trust slash newsletter. got questions about what you saw in today’s episode. Join our free analytics for markers slack group at Trust slash analytics for marketers. See you next time.

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