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So What? How to process unstructured survey data

So What? Marketing Analytics and Insights Live

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In this week’s episode of So What? we focus on How to process unstructured survey data. We walk through what unstructured data is, using a spreadsheet or machine learning to analyze the data, and what actions to take.  Catch the replay here:

So What? How to process unstructured survey data

In this episode you’ll learn: 

  • how to apply natural language processing to your data
  • how to clean up the data to make it actionable
  • what to do with the analysis

Upcoming Episodes:

  • SEO AMA – 11/18/2021

Have a question or topic you’d like to see us cover? Reach out here:

AI-Generated Transcript:

Katie Robbert 0:25
Well, Happy Thursday. Welcome to so at the marketing analytics and insights live show. If you are subscribed to the Trust Insights newsletter, or you’re in our analytics or marketer, Slack group, you may have seen that we recently asked our one question survey that we do once a quarter. And the question that we asked was around which marketing channels you plan on using in 2022? And why? And so today, what we want to do in this episode, is we want to cover how to process that unstructured data. So this is, you still have time to respond to the one question survey, we always want to know what people are thinking and what they’re planning on doing. But in today’s episode, we’re actually going to take a look at the data live, and use it as an opportunity to walk through how to apply natural language processing to your data. If you’re running something like an unstructured survey, or some kind of a qualitative survey, we want to show you how to clean up that data to make it actionable, and what to do with the analysis once you have it. And so for us, we were curious to know, the rationale behind using certain channels. And the response is really interesting. And so we’re going to take a look at it in terms of what you the user can do with the data. And then what we as Trust Insights the people asking the question will be doing with the data. So, Chris, where do you want to start

Christopher Penn 1:46
out? Why did we run the survey? Like what was what are we trying to get out of it?

Katie Robbert 1:51
So what what we’re trying to get out of it as a marketing consulting company is understanding a couple of things. Number one, we want to understand where people were spending their time and energy in a different marketing channel, and for what purpose, so what their customer journey looks like digital or not digital. So we wanted to understand that just purely from a curiosity perspective. But then as a company, the more channels people listed, the more commonalities we saw, based on what they were saying, from awareness or conversion. We wanted to make sure that our services and our content aligned with the questions that people had about, you know, where do I build awareness? Or what channels are best for conversion? And so making sure we have that data to then create content to help other people understand that same question.

Christopher Penn 2:48
Got it? Okay. So let’s start just with the survey itself. This is the landing page that we asked things. And what you’ll notice is it really is one question. There’s there’s no like 15 parts or anything like that. And so what we get out of this is two pieces of information, we just get the the person’s email address, and we get a block of text, whatever somebody wants to type in here. And this is good for discovery, this is good for you. Because people will type in things that you didn’t anticipate, as opposed to having like a drop down menu, or something like that. It is not good if you don’t have the ability to process the responses and turn them into something because you’ll get a lot of interesting anomalies. So let’s look at what the raw results look like. This is Excel, I’ve removed people’s identities so that you know, we’re not like sharing pie on the ads. That’s not fun for anyone. And this is what you would get out of any kind of survey software, just a nice spreadsheet with your question and the answers. Now, here’s the challenge. As you can see, there’s a lot of variation in here. And if you wanted to start picking this apart, and all you had was Excel, or the spreadsheet software of your choice, there are a few different ways that you could do that. But one of the easiest is just to start counting stuff. And in fact, counting stuffs pretty much what you’re going to do. So I’m going to go ahead and just in cell B2B Here, I’m going to start typing a formula, I’m going to close this warning they don’t care about and let’s say I want to count if in cell B two, a two. And then I want to put an asterisk here, which means anything and I see already you know, LinkedIn. So I’m gonna put just type in link in our what was the quote and this tells me how many times LinkedIn appears in that thing. So I might put a pillow comm LinkedIn. And then you can drag that down the rest of the way. You can see how many times LinkedIn has appeared in entries. And my next one might be say Facebook And I might go, same exact thing. Out groups equals out if a to our Facebook star, and so on and so forth now

John Wall 5:21
Oh, quotes around the stars.

Christopher Penn 5:24
Oh, yes, thank you. All right. Again, just drop that down. Now here’s the challenge with this particular method, you do have to anticipate or be able to browse through and see what are some of the variations. So if we scroll down here, you’ll notice that some folks like in this response here, shorten things up, right, they typed in FB, iG, Li, and, and so on, so forth. So there’s actually two mentions of Facebook, but we only counted the one. So again, if you’re doing this in Excel, you’d have to add a plus sign here and say, I also want to count if an A to R, or the quote that time FB, gar voter. Now I’ve got a compound formula, it’s going to count one for every for the occurrences of Facebook, and another for the occurrence of FB, and so on and so forth. And this is admittedly a pretty rudimentary approach. But it’s not entirely bad, right? Because you can least if I just highlight column B here, I’ve summed this up. And just from this approach, not kind of all those variations, we got 71 occurrences of that. And so that tells us LinkedIn occurs at least 71 times in the spreadsheet. Now, from there, you could start totaling things up and trying to figure out okay, how many times do individual words appear? What this doesn’t get you is doesn’t get you a more nuanced understanding of, you know, how many of the different types of occurrences So, add to what you were saying, This is what I would say the the, the non coder, or type person will use any questions on this before we move to the coding version?

John Wall 7:08
Yeah, I’ve got an easy one. How did you do the paste down through the rest of the column? What’s the shortcut for that?

Christopher Penn 7:13
You just double click on the corner of the box. Really?

John Wall 7:16
See, this is the problem when you’re using Excel 2008?

Christopher Penn 7:22
That’s been like an Excel since like 2000.

John Wall 7:26
Maybe I’m using 97.

Katie Robbert 7:30
No, I, you know, I for for a marketing team or marketer that doesn’t have access to writing code or machine learning. I think this is actually a really great approach. Because at the very, you know, at the very like core of it, you can just understand, here are the different social channels people plan on using next year or key or other different digital marketing channels. And then so for us, so we don’t, we don’t do a lot with LinkedIn in general, one, because getting analytics out of LinkedIn is tough. But in thinking about, you know, our own company strategy, what more could we as a company be doing with LinkedIn? Because that seems where everybody’s moving to. And so I think there’s a lot of things that as a marketer, you should be thinking about doing with this data, even just from account.

Christopher Penn 8:25
Exactly. Any other Excel tips, John?

John Wall 8:30
Hmm, yeah, no, we don’t want to get into pivot table or VLOOKUP. That’s, that’s a road we don’t want to travel. Yeah, I

Katie Robbert 8:36
think that’s a different episode.

Christopher Penn 8:38
That’s definitely different episode, I will recommend my friend oz too. So les is sort of an Excel MVPs look him up on LinkedIn, if you want, really good, really amazing, like, I didn’t know Excel could do that. Alright, so we’re gonna move into a programming environment. This is the program language R. And the first thing I want to highlight here is I’ve written I’ve taken some time, this is like a cooking show, I baked this in advance. And I’ve tried to accommodate for many of the different variations of the way that terms appear in the text, you know, people like using those two little FB and then essentially rewriting those terms, so that they correspond to the appropriate language in here. So I’m going to go ahead and run through this. And let’s go ahead and see what we come up with.

Katie Robbert 9:27
Chris, that seems very similar to the way that you would write the script for channel grouping in Google Analytics, you want to try to capture all of the different variations, and then rewrite it so that it’s if you see FB then it means Facebook.

Christopher Penn 9:44
That’s correct. That’s exactly right. One of the things I highlight here is you just do a bit of very basic analysis here just looking at how long are the responses so the mean response in our survey is 184 characters which is good Just slightly less than a full sized tweet. The shortest response was eight characters that was other person I believe said don’t know. And the longest response was a person who wrote a book at 1800 20 characters and stuff. So there’s there’s is a lot of variation. If we look at the histogram, though, it definitely leans towards the shorter sides and people did, as we promised in the email, say, Yes, this is 30 seconds or less, they took the appropriate amount of time, what we’re doing is we’re taking apart the text, and we’re first altering those responses to, you know, to fit those terms, like we talked about. And then we’re breaking apart the test text, breaking it down by words, removing what are called stop words, A and the, etc, words that don’t offer any any value. And then we group them all together. And we say, Okay, I want to see how many of these words all cleaned up and fixed there are. So let’s take a look what we’ve got here. Now, having gone through all this, we see that there were 105 mentions of email, right? We have a, which is number, our number one we have LinkedIn is number two, Facebook is number three, Instagram is number four, social in general, we have Twitter down there, we then start getting into stuff like YouTube, social media in general SEO, Google ads, Tik Tok, which surprised me, which made the top 30 direct mail, which also made the top 30 I thought was interesting, and events. So these are sort of the major channels and things that people had identified in our survey and said, this is this is what we think is is going to be in our 2022 plans. So Katie, when you look at this, what does this tell you?

Katie Robbert 11:50
It tells me that there’s a lot of emphasis on social media in 2022 is that’s where people want to be posting information and finding their audience. And I find it both surprising and unsurprising. unsurprising, in terms of ease of use, it’s very easy to post something on social media. Surprising, I think we’re so for myself personally, just given recent events with certain social media platforms that it’s still so widely popular. And having read through just about every single response, a lot of people saying that’s where my audience is, that’s where my customers are. So I was definitely interested to see that social media still tops the list. But even more pleased to see that email is at the very, very top. And so what that says to me, because I’m anticipating your next question is, as you know, a company as Trust Insights, our responsibility, then is to make sure that we are creating as much helpful content about like the top 30 channels.

Christopher Penn 13:01
I agree with that. And if you look, it’s certainly not anything differently revelatory. We do see that in the word cloud. Now, one of the next steps that we want to take is to do a lot of processing to figure out not just the terms in general, but how do these terms relate to each other. This is where that’s probably a little too much. Let’s, let’s dial that down to maybe 30. Because not all these entries are, you know, have all these terms in them, we will see how things kind of clustered together. So we see your social channels, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, organic social over here, paid search, email, direct mail, trade shows, and a network map of words like this helps us understand what are the terms and things that are near each other in responses? And what are the terms where things are far away. So it’s interesting to me that direct mail, trade shows and emails, sort of over here, email social over on one side, you have all your social channels, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, over here, Facebook, Instagram in the middle, and then you have just regular email at the heart of the network, which really even though you know, we were saying with the other parts that LinkedIn was was really critical, we see that email is literally the heart of this word network, which means that in terms of the most important things that people care about, it really is an email sort of the center of the strategy. So for us, you’re right, we’ve got to spend an awful lot of time with it. One thing I thought was interesting that is absent on here, we see a lot of stuff. We do see content here, but we don’t see organic search, you know, slash SEO, even though we know from many of our clients reports that that is the primary traffic driver or a lot of different companies. And so what’s your perspective on that? Why do we not see people saying We’re going to put a lot of focus on organic search, because it’s our number one channel.

Katie Robbert 15:04
You know, I? It’s a good question. And this is pure speculation. Because the first question I would say before that is, what is it that’s being posted on social media? And so are you writing content and then posting it on social media? And that’s the way that you’re using the channel? Or are you just posting your thoughts and, you know, reflections on social media, to bring in people to your website. And so I think there’s, you know, this idea, and again, pure speculation, I don’t know that this is true at all, but that SEO is more difficult that it’s hard to, you know, rank within Google. But you already have your audience baked into a social platform, so why not create the content and share it there, versus relying on Google to serve it up?

Christopher Penn 15:55
Based on the customers you’ve talked to,

John Wall 15:57
well, one thing and we were talking about this last week was this kind of gap, we’re in a lot of marketing departments, a lot of SEO stuff, they just throw over the cubicle wall to the IT department, you know, like Search Console is more of the IT departments problem. And I think that’s a massive gap. To be honest, I think, you know, we’ve seen over and over again, where somebody goes in and cleans up Search Console, and suddenly they’re getting like, 20% more traffic every day. And that’s, you know, as opposed to the crack pipe of social ads, you know, you fix something on the organic side, and that delivers traffic for the rest of your business’s life. It’s a massive, massive difference. It’s a different kind of hit. But yeah, I just don’t understand why companies don’t jump on that. You know, it’s bizarre. And maybe it’s a bias with our audience, too, you know, because we tend to, there’s a lot of folks in the forum group that are especially talking about problems on certain ad platforms. And so maybe we’re skewing in that direction.

Christopher Penn 16:57
Yeah, I would agree with that. For sure. We constantly see people under investing in SEO, like, we one of our largest clients, you know, they spent millions of dollars on on hate social and advertising. And they have like one person working on SEO, and not even full time. And it always baffles me to see that because you look in the attribution model 60% of your leads, come from search. So we’re like, Well, how do we help people and bridge that gap? Not that, well, we’re not an SEO agency, we’re not gonna become an SEO agency. But in terms of just understanding how people are resourced, properly, even here, you know, yes, email important. And, you know, obviously, we like that, because we have some specialization in that, and we know what we’re doing with that. But to your point case, so many, so much of the stuff is social, SEO is way down here. And yet, we know that from a an effectiveness perspective robably, most of the people who responded to the survey, organic, organic search as their top driver,

Katie Robbert 18:02
I think one of the things that we might want to do is redefine what SEO looks like. And so the different ways that you can create content that gets SEO value on your website. So it goes back to that transmedia framework that we’re so fond of where you create one piece of content, and you use it multiple different ways. And so for this live stream, for example, you know, not only are we live, but we’re also recording it. And then what happens is tomorrow, I will turn it into a blog post, using the transcription from this episode, that then becomes the long form content with the right terms in it, you know, I can clean up the transcript a little bit, make sure I’m hitting certain terms. And so that becomes the content. And all we’ve done is sit here and talk with each other for you know, 30 minutes or so. But we have a full piece of content that is hopefully helpful and explains the thing. And then we can also then share it on social we can also then share it an email and so we’ve done one thing and we’ve used it multiple different ways. Then we can cut down little, you know, snippets of the video posted on Tik Tok posted on Instagram, you know, whatever we want to do with it. So that’s, I think that’s something that we need to really put a focus on and re educate how you can think about SEO, it’s not just sitting down, you know, with a bunch of keywords and writing a piece of content that hits the keywords six different times.

Christopher Penn 19:38
One of the next steps that I think is important in this process is that this all we boiled down the data to quantitative stuff so that we can see priorities and things. We actually want to go back to our spreadsheet now. And and look at some of the qualitative stuff. Let’s take SEO cuz I I think that’s a really good example. I’m going to, I’m going to rename this to SEO, and John, magic, double click believable. And then I’m going to filter this column only for the only for the ones, take out the zeros. And what this does is it essentially filter only the answers that people have given where they have used SEO and their response. And now, this is where we start to go from quantitative to qualitative. For the people who answered SEO, what else did they have to say? Are there any similarities in here? We see, I see. Just in terms of length alone, people who answer SEO had a lot of stuff to say, right? We see these are not short answers.

Katie Robbert 20:52
Well, it seems that those are the marketing teams that have more well rounded strategies versus just relying on one channel. Um, you know, something that I found really interesting, especially for people who were talking about social media as their primary channel in 2022. Was that’s where my audience is, or that’s where my prospects are. And that naturally brings up more questions for me of how do you know that? How do you know where to your audiences? And that’s not me saying you don’t know. That’s me. Really wondering, how did you get to the point of understanding where your audiences to know, because so many people responded Facebook, but I personally and again, pure speculation, I have a hard time believing that that much audience is on Facebook, other than maybe just for awareness.

John Wall 21:44
You know, one of the thing with that is, on the qualitative side, it was interesting, how many of them were sort of apologizing, like, well, we use Facebook, because that’s where they are and language like that, where they were obviously, kind of signaling a bias that they feel like whether it’s ethical, or for whatever reason, they shouldn’t be there.

Katie Robbert 22:03
And that’s, you know, that’s a really good point, because you’re trying to meet your customers where they are. And if your customers on Facebook, and you hate Facebook, you know, you’re kind of stuck. But again, that’s a whole different episode.

Christopher Penn 22:14
Facebook was still king of social gets a metal weird next year. That’s true. Okay. I appreciate the the sense of humor. So, at this point, now, we can start looking to see like, you’re saying, what are some of the sentiment around these things? We didn’t do any sentiment analysis on the the text, we certainly can if we want to. But looking at the responses themselves, I’m not sure that we would actually get a whole lot of value of that, because a lot of these things that just lists, and they’re not, I don’t see strong opinions being listed here is just more sort of factual statements. If you were doing an opinion based thing like, hey, this person’s running for office in 2024. What do you think about that, you’d get some obviously very strong opinions. And that’s a case where sentiment analysis would make a great deal of sense or, you know, we’re renaming our company to hide our transgressions. What do you think about our new name? Sentiment Analysis? Very, very important there. So we have done quantitative, we’ve done qualitative. The next step, if we want to find this further, would be to circle back if you think about survey analysis as sort of like that yin and yang, idea, you start with one qualitative or quantitative. In this case, we started with qualitative, which is asking a bunch of stuff. Now, with our data from our we have quantitative data data as a starting point. Now we can run another survey, if we wanted to, saying, Please tell us about your, you know, how important is email marketing to you on a scale of one to five? How important is LinkedIn to on a scale of one to five, and so on and so forth. So now we’ve boiled down the things that we think are important, and we can start putting numbers to that, to get a sense of the actual importance.

Katie Robbert 23:59
See what I would do I think that that’s a good approach. The other approach I would take is, where in your sales funnel, or where in your journey, do these channels fall? Are they awareness or the engagement? Because I think that, again, what we’re trying to get out of it is an understanding of where our community is at so that we can then provide additional helpful content. And so we can write about LinkedIn, we can write about Facebook, but getting into that more specific use of why, like, where in your journey, are you using Facebook? Or how do you know your audience is there I think would help us get more specific about the advice that we’re able to give?

Christopher Penn 24:44
Yep, I would agree with that. And one of the places that you can go for that that is relatively straightforward is Google Analytics four. So for those who have not seen my previous episodes, you can find them on a YouTube channel. But let me pull up our Google Analytics for attribution model. And let’s look at source because I don’t trust their channel groupings. And now, we’re starting to be able to pick apart in terms of go away. early, middle, or late funnel, like for us early funnel, Google is the second biggest source besides email. So even though our survey folks said, SEO is not on there, at least we know from our own data for ourselves, our own marketing, it’s a, it’s a number two source at the top of the funnel, it’s the number three source in the middle of funnel. And so number two, well, technically number three, but don’t count direct, as source as at the bottom of the funnel for our journey, we see referral traffic, you know, my website is number three, at the start number four in the middle, and then drops off, it’s not part of the blast type. So from a, you know, some folks have talked about affiliates and partnerships. This is would be an interesting thing for those folks to look at in their own attribution modeling. Because I would have the question, well, if you think at affiliates and partners are important, are you measuring affiliates and partners impact at each stage in your funnel, because if you have a, if you have a bottom of the funnel problem, and your affiliates and partners aren’t showing up, they’re there, they might not be working for you for your biggest need. That’s not to say, stop doing it. Because if you start putting stuff in the top of the funnel, nothing comes out the bottom, just know that from a priority perspective that you if you’re, you know, CMO is saying, hey, we need more leads, you might need to change your focus.

Katie Robbert 26:42
So John, I’ll give you your, you know, weekly to do. Um, you know, as our business development guru, you need to go back to our Christopher, Penn partner and yell at him as to why he’s not producing more conversions get a

John Wall 26:59
better rate. Yeah, definitely. That’s right. So

Katie Robbert 27:00
I’ll let you get better.

Christopher Penn 27:02
The good news is the almost highly newsletter publication do it okay.

Katie Robbert 27:09
Yeah. But no, I mean, I feel like this is really interesting, because, to me, I was looking at attribution and the survey feedback as complimentary. And so it, you know, a lot of people listed just the channels, but some people went into the detail of, I use this for awareness, I use this for engagement, I use this for conversion. And it’s interesting to me to see how they stack their channels, so that we can then think about, you know, educating on what that channel, what that customer journey looks like, one of the tools that I used to really enjoy, which I don’t think exists anymore. Chris, you introduced it to me, you know, five or six years ago was Google had their customer journey. It was just on their website. And you could say, This is my kind of business. This is the, you know, size that we are and it would give you your expected customer journey for each of the channels. And we would be able to see, okay, Google says you should use social for awareness, you should use direct for this, you should use SEO for this. And then we could map that against what we’re actually seeing.

Christopher Penn 28:19
Yeah, unfortunate. That’s been gone for three years now May at we’re hoping Google will bring it back. But no.

Katie Robbert 28:26
But that would be that something that’s the first thing that came to mind, when I when we started getting all the survey responses is I would love to have that, you know, Google’s perspective of what the customer journey should look like to map it against these responses of, well, here’s what you know, they say you should do and here’s what you’re doing. What’s the discrepancy in the middle? Because we obviously don’t have all of these people’s data to say this is what’s actually happening.

Christopher Penn 28:55
Yeah, I, I don’t disagree. I wish we had access or he or had the ability to build our own. That was generalized we certainly have are the ones that we use for our for ourselves that are specific to us, but for the industry as a whole that that sort of thing doesn’t exist. The other thing I think is really important is when you look at your attribution modeling, now this is our this is ours. We can see, you know, Gmail is in their email in general is just a massive, probably too much. Then you have LinkedIn, Twitter and social and the other socials in there. One of the things that I think is important about this survey data is that we see like you said, we saw a lot of people putting a lot of emphasis on social channels. I would be looking at your at your multi touch attribution report, to say are the results we are getting commensurate with the effort we’re putting in right I heard somebody called Return on effort and I want to stab them with like a haddock but because Return on anything is a financial equation. It’s not anything else which are not influenced or turned on blah, blah, whatever. But there is something to be said for, are you over investing in a channel that is giving you enough return? So kind of what we were saying earlier, very few people put SEO out of 200 some odd responses 21 had SEO and there’s a 10% what people what that is one of their their channels. And yet, when we look at our attribution models for a bunch of different companies, it’s 60 to 70, sometimes 80%, when in fact, with one client earlier, we were on the phone with, say 92% of their conversions come from organic search. And so I would say to those folks who are putting like LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook and stuff, yeah, okay. If your attribution model looks like ours, and 2% of your conversions are coming from LinkedIn, but 20% of your budget and time is going into it, you might want to reprioritize.

Katie Robbert 31:06
Well, and I, I feel like so one of the things that we talked about, and I think it was on last week’s episode was reconfiguring our Google Analytics goals. So they follow that sales funnel of awareness, engagement and conversion, because this really only gives you the view of conversion. And so I would be interested to see if you break it out into into those three separate buckets, do those social channels change their position, and therefore, you know, you’re a little bit more justified in spending that time and energy in those channels, because you’re right, without awareness, the rest of the funnel falls apart, so people have to find out about you. But you have to be using the channels in the right context. And this is why we share the customer journey information. And why I really always liked that Google tool of you know, the awareness to engagement to conversion, because, like, for us, social really is an awareness tool. It’s not a conversion tool. It’s not where people are going to say I want to buy something from Trust Insights, they’re going to our email newsletter, or they’re coming directly to our website to our contact form, because they know enough about us. And so I think that’s the context that’s missing from some of this is not just what channels but how those channels are being used, what information is being communicated what the messaging is, and what the audience is, you know, how they’re reacting to it, what their engagement is, with that information?

Christopher Penn 32:35
Yep. So we’ve taken the survey data, we applied natural language processing showed a couple different versions of it cleaned up the data. What do we do next? Kidding.

Katie Robbert 32:44
Um, alright, so John, get out your notepad. You know, what we do next is we, we have a couple of options. One is we can run a follow up survey to get a little bit more information. So that’s one thing we can do. I don’t know that it’s necessary. I think that we’ve been talking about the importance of SEO. So I think that it’s an opportunity for us to publish more content around rethinking SEO and how it’s not just sitting down to write long form content and making sure you’re hitting a certain amount of keywords. That’s obviously important. But that’s not the only way to approach it. So I think there’s an education opportunities for us with what we’ve learned. And so it’s just more ideas for us with our own content creation.

Christopher Penn 33:33
Do you think marketers, at least the ones that in as you said, there’s a bias because it’s our audience, but do you think our audience is on the right track or the wrong track for 2022?

Katie Robbert 33:47
You know, I think I said this last week, as we were getting the responses, and I’m a little concerned with the amount of social media I see, in terms of the channels being used, I think social media is important to have in your mix. But the emphasis and the sole focus on social media that we saw come through with the responses to me is a little bit concerning, because it’s one of those platforms you have the least control over. And it’s one of those platforms, those digital channels that people come and go and you know, their opinions of the channel can change with the you know, the way the wind changes. And so, obviously, like, you know, Facebook is going through a lot. And so people are moving away from Facebook. So if you’re doubling down on Facebook in 2022, that may be something to consider of, what else could we be doing. It’s easy to pick on Facebook, because obviously, they’re who they are. But LinkedIn is another one of those channels that people are saying that’s where my audience is. That’s where I’m going to be spending my time and energy. But we know from our own use of Facebook, you don’t get great metrics out of face out of Sorry, I keep saying Facebook, LinkedIn. So people are doubling down on LinkedIn. You don’t get great metrics out of LinkedIn. Um, you know, so I think that I was concerned with the doubling down on social media in general as the only strategy that people had.

Christopher Penn 35:15
I agree. Well, I guess maybe a future episode two either. So what are podcast In-Ear Insights, we can talk about reimagining SEO for the current future and what’s coming next year because guess what, folks? Google’s multi use multi purpose model is on its way, and it’s going to change an awful lot for us. But that is literally for another show. Any final thoughts, John?

John Wall 35:41
No, I think we’re good to go. But just yeah, get your SEO stuff in order, stop throwing money down the drain.

Katie Robbert 35:48
And if your actions about SEO, we can help.

Christopher Penn 35:52
Exactly questions or if you want some help with the analytics, we can do that too. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you next week. Thanks for watching today. Be sure to subscribe to our show wherever you’re watching it. For more resources. And to learn more. Check out the Trust Insights podcast at trust AI podcasts, and a weekly email newsletter at trust Got questions about what you saw in today’s episode. Join our free analytics for markers slack group at trust for marketers, see you next time.

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