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In this week’s episode of In-Ear Insights, Katie and Chris bring on special guest Brooke Sellas of BSquared.media to talk about third party data, iOS 14.5, and what marketers should be thinking about and doing to adapt to data loss now and in the future.

Topics covered:

  • The differences among first party data, second party data, and third party data
  • What laws like GDPR, CCPA, and CPRA are doing to marketing data
  • Technology changes like Chrome’s elimination of third party cookies and iOS 14.5
  • Strategies for moving forward
    • First party data strategies
    • Second party data techniques for encouraging audiences to volunteer data
    • What to do about losing third party data

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Disclosures

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Machine-Generated Transcript

What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.

Christopher Penn 0:02

This is In-Ear Insights, the Trust Insights podcast.

In this week’s In-Ear Insights, having a data party specifically talking about first, second and third party data, what is it? Why does it matter? And how are things changing? What should you do about And today, I have a special guest with us, Brooke SaaS from the the ad and content and marketing agency v squared, along with Katie.

So, Katie, just to get things started, why are we even talking about this, this whole business of whose party is the data party?

Katie Robbert 0:36

Well, so the crux of the conversation starts with the iOS 14 updates, and all of the different Privacy Practices that they’ve been putting in place.

And so, you know, it’s, it’s gonna be a pain in the butt for marketers, and it already is, so they’ve been talking about this since the wintertime since around December, January, knowing that this was coming, I was reading through some blogs and forums trying to get my head around, what the heck is going on.

And I’ve also been working with Brooks team, their account managers on the ad side, because a lot of them are running Facebook ads, and that seems to be one of the biggest pain points for some of these changes.

And so what Facebook is doing is like, cool, you kind of have to reset everything, but we’re not totally going to tell you how it’s gonna work, you got to figure it out.

But if you don’t figure it out, and today, we’re gonna pause your ads, good luck, and so bad.

Brooke Sellas 1:36

Notice, like, 48 hours before they actually Yeah, yeah, I mean, you knew it was coming.

But then it was like, hey, so we’re gonna pause your stuff.

Katie Robbert 1:44

Well, and that’s the challenge.

And so they gave you very little notice.

And when I went back and started reading older blog posts, when they were making these announcements last winter, a lot of what it said was, we don’t totally know what these changes are going to look like.

So we cannot instruct you on what exactly to do.

And so now on like, a Friday morning, when you find out that your ads are paused, or they’re going to be paused at a Monday, and you’re scrambling to try to figure out how to change everything.

And if you’re running them on behalf of a client, you don’t have full access, and you need the client to do something, but they hired you because they don’t know what they’re doing.

This is sort of where we’re at.

And this is why we wanted to bring Brooke into the conversation because this is what your agency does.

And so if you want to get your perspective on, you know, what it’s been like, and also what it means, you know, for advertising, moving forward, any sort of, you know, predictions in terms of certain platforms, or even just the ability to do you know, things that as we’ve always done them.

Brooke Sellas 2:44

Yeah, I think, you know, for us, it was a scramble moment, I’m sure for a lot of people, it’s, they’re scrambling.

And that’s exactly kind of what happened was what you said on a Friday, we went in, and we had messages about the update, and it was like, hey, so if you don’t think these by Monday, we’re going to pause on anything.

Thanks, bye.

So I don’t literally on a Friday afternoon, we’re scrambling to try to get some of these updates made that obviously, none of the ads are paused.

That’s what we do.

So so we live in that world, I think it’s fine for us, where I see the struggle, the real struggle, both with what’s happening with Facebook, and iOS, and then what’s coming with Google is with the really small businesses, right.

So um, some of our small businesses never had a Facebook Business Manager, they don’t really have a web developer on their teams.

So when Facebook is saying, we need to verify your domain, there’s no one really on that client side to go through and kind of take those steps, even though they’re easy, right, just putting a little snippet of code on the site, they don’t really have that person to do that.

And and they can give us access to do it.

But it turns into this whole big long thing at which point, like we just talked about your ads are going to be paused for a small amount of time.

And for some clients, that’s not a big deal.

But for others, you know, they’re literally making some of their revenue from the ads that they’re running, we have a small jewelry client who is getting a 17x on their ads right now, that means for every dollar they spend, they’re getting 17.

Of course, you have to back out some of the cost behind that, but they’re literally making money.

That’s where some of their revenue comes from, for this very small business.

So, you know, for me, and I’ll say, you know, with taking with a grain of salt, I think the businesses who are going to get hard hit hardest with all this are the really small businesses.

Christopher Penn 4:41

So you’ve got, you’ve got three parties, right first party data, which is the audience gives you their data on a property you only fill out a form on the website, the second party data, which is where the audience gives you their information directly from a site that isn’t yours.

So for example, like if if we had Download form on the squid dot media and was a co registration meant like co register for webinar.

And we both got the data from that form that would be second party data for us because the site we don’t know.

And then there’s third party data, which is where you get data about the audience that the audience didn’t give you.

They gave it to somebody else.

So for a lot of these clients that are in smaller businesses, is the path forward for them to migrate away from third party data on third party advertising into second party advertising?

Brooke Sellas 5:29

Yeah, that’s a great question.

So I think for me what the aha moment was, right, because I mean, full disclosure, I don’t do the advertising myself, I have a wonderful team of people who do it, and they’re so much smarter than I am.

Um, but I wanted to understand what’s going on, because obviously, this is going to affect our business.

So as I started to read the biggest thing that I have started to understand with third party data, and this is where we get a lot of the interest data from so when you’re retargeting people, which is obviously a lot of what we do in the advertising world.

All of that comes from third party.

So if a if Katie, right, if I’m trying to target Katie, and Katie shops on these sites, and she buys from these sites, I can get that interest information from her.

And so he becomes attracted to me, because I know that she shops at similar places, or she has the interest and sacred graphical makeup of an of someone who I also want to target for my products, right? That is third party data, that’s what’s going away.

So that’s also going to be a huge blow, I think to everyone.

Honestly, anybody who runs any sort of AR retargeting or interest based advertising is going to get hit hard there.

So second party data is an important place first party data.

And then you guys actually introduced us to some interesting ways to play around which we’re testing now that don’t require third party cookies for doing things like you know, cool things like retargeting.

So StackAdapt is the tool you introduced us to.

It’s a programmatic advertising tool.

But one of the things that they do that we’re testing right now with one of our healthcare clients, is what’s called contextual advertising.

So this is where say, you there’s an article in The New York Times about how COVID has affected coffee, and the availability of coffee, coffee chain, supply, all that stuff, supply chain, um, you can put an ad for your very expensive coffee machine into that new york times article, right? It’s contextual, the AI finds the placement of the media by based on very specific keyword phrases.

And that doesn’t require any sort of third party data to place that ad.

So I think there’s a lot of different avenues you can go down, which are looking at like first and second party data.

But I think you’d better start looking real fast, because I feel like the Google thing is gonna sneak up on is just kind of kind of like the Facebook thing did we knew it was coming we had all this time.

But then, as we talked about with Katie, we were scrambling on a Friday to make sure nothing was positive on Monday.

Christopher Penn 8:04

It sounds like influencers and sponsorships would be very much that as well, contextually.

If you know, for example, that you’re after marketers, and you would advertise logically with the marketing over coffee podcast, because it’s marketers listen to us, you know, people who like Barbie dolls probably don’t listen to that show.

Maybe, you

Katie Robbert 8:25

know, Chris, the main

Christopher Penn 8:33

interest, the main interest is around marketing.

And you know, that’s why people are there.

Yeah.

The same for like a newsletter, the same for each individual website.

Like if you happen to have a food blogger who blogs about tofu, and you sell a brand of tofu, it would seem like a logical place.

But it sounds like also, that’s a lot more work.

Because instead of having a system where you just push your interests, tofu, you have to now or your agency now has to go and hunt down.

Okay, who’s blogging about tofu?

Brooke Sellas 9:03

Yes, yeah, you’re exactly right.

It’s so much more work.

And I think that’s why again, like the even this small agencies, and we’re a small agency are going to be streamed.

I mean, luckily, we have Trust Insights in our in our pocket and in our corner.

And we’ve been kind of working with you guys on some workarounds and some ideas, but I just think the conversation needs to be had now today, if you haven’t already started the conversation, because I feel like even starting it today might be a little bit late.

I mean, we are we are also scrambling, to be quite honest, to figure out what to do to you know, fix what’s coming with Google and we still have a whole year but I just don’t feel like you know, it’s funny.

If you are in a position to help other people with their advertising, right, if you have clients you’re helping with, they rely on you to bring them this information.

And no matter how early you bring them the education in the moment formation, it’s always not fun.

So I would say get the get the band aid ripped off and start having those not fun conversations now and budgets, that’s a whole other thing.

Budgets are going to come into play.

Small businesses may not be able to afford programmatic advertising platforms, you know, they’re they’re not inexpensive.

They may not be able to support an influencer campaign, depending on how expensive the influencer is, you know, so it’s something it’s a conversation that needs to start happening immediately.

Katie Robbert 10:32

So I have a couple of questions around this as I’m trying to wrap my head around what this means for marketers, so you know, a couple of the places where there’s inferred information about people are Google surveys.

And then there’s also affinity audiences or affinity categories in Google Analytics, Will those things be impacted by any of these changes, you know, in terms of trying to understand people’s interest trying to understand their demographics? And then I just want to sort of put it, you know, sort of in our minds, but what is the impact for organic social media, I feel like that at some point, you know, will come into play, and I can sort of tie that in.

But I want to just throw that out there something for us to come back to later in the conversation.

So what does this mean for the inferred data from Google down the line? Oh, well, I

Unknown Speaker 11:29
look at Chris for that.

Katie Robbert 11:31

I can see Chris smiley, he’s like, Oh, I know this.

Christopher Penn 11:35

Well, we know the answer.

All of us, Google.

It’s interesting.

When you look, Facebook was protesting really loudly about, for example, the iOS 14 changes.

Google was not, which makes you ask the question why? Well, Facebook doesn’t own a whole lot, right? Google owns a browser, right Chrome, the most popular browser in the world, or the desktop, they own a substantial share of mobile browser as well.

They pay Apple a sizable amount to be the default search engine in Safari.

They own Google Analytics, they have insight into millions of different websites and everything that the customer is doing on them, they own the double click network itself, they own the TV, right? They own 70% of the world’s operating systems on mobile devices, the Android operating system.

So Google is in a position where even if they have a 10x loss in data, they still have enough data and a huge training library of data for their AI to be able to make the determination, okay, this is still probably a 44 year old male who’s Asian who, you know, likes hot sauce, right? This is there’s enough of that data preserved, that they can make that assessment and be probably correct 90% of the time.

So the data that we get as marketers may go down from what Google’s sharing with us, but the data that Google has to power, its ad systems will probably be okay.

But it raises a really interesting point that Brooke was bringing up.

Facebook still has a lot of the interest graph, especially because they own Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc.

So they have a lot of that day, and they could their machine learning models will still probably be okay, as well.

But that means that Facebook and Google will basically be the two advertising Titans in the marketplace, their ads will logically perform much better than, say, a third party network that doesn’t have the lose access to third party data.

That means that the competition for advertising space for inventory with Google and Facebook will go up.

And that means prices will go up on those networks.

Yeah.

So

Katie Robbert 13:40

that brings me to my question around organic social.

So one of the things we know about organic is that the algorithms continue to change making it more and more difficult for organic posts to be shown.

And a lot of times your best bet is you know, to boost a post or to be running ads on these platforms.

But Brooke, as you’re saying, a lot of these small businesses, their budgets are constrained and so if their audiences on Facebook if their audiences on Instagram, and they need to reach them, like your, you know, your jewelry client who’s making 17x but their only way to reach them is to pay to reach them like what like what does this mean?

Unknown Speaker 14:23
It means you better find the budget.

Brooke Sellas 14:27

Um, but you know, I don’t want it to be sound all that either, because one thing I do think that is so interesting about social intelligence that people can look to as a small business, right is their organic audiences.

You can understand a lot of interest data, based on your followers on social you can look the conversations that are happening through either manual efforts or social listening to kind of start to understand some of those interests that match up with your audience.

Now, that’s not necessarily you’re buying audience and we would go down a whole nother rabbit hole for that conversation.

But still, you can do some research through your organic audience and find some of that interest data through organic social media.

So I think organic social media actually might get a leg up here, you know, whereas we’ve all been kind of running towards paid because there isn’t really organic reach, there might be a leg up here with organic, social intelligence.

But as far as budgets go and buying, it’s like Chris said, supply and demand, you know, once this all takes fruition and, and and keep in mind, also, this is exactly why Apple, Facebook and Google are doing things like this, it’s not to protect the consumer and for privacy, I think it’s really a power play.

But, um, but as they do that, and this and the demand goes up, obviously, the supply will be in shorter supply, and it will cost more money.

Again, I think, you know, that’s why I made some statements that some people might work so happy with about this being potentially detrimental to really small businesses, because it really could be crippled it if you don’t have the budget, you can’t play.

That’s the long and short

Christopher Penn 16:07

of it.

Katie Robbert 16:08

How important will social listening become so if the, you know, third party data goes away in terms of people’s interest, you can’t retarget them based on the types of magazines they might subscribe to? How important will social listening be as that supplemental data to target people based on what they’re talking about versus what they’re interested in?

Brooke Sellas 16:32

Yeah, I think there’ll be an interesting pivot there.

Because obviously, we’d love social listening and intelligence for all of the organic things that we do.

But I do think that it will come into a bigger play for the paid side of, of social media as well, we did use it for one project, which was really interesting, where this is a different jewelry brand came to us and wanted to understand their audience better, they thought their audience was 18 to 24, based on a few different factors.

We went through we looked at their organic social media data, which is who is following them on social right.

And that did show Yes, your audiences 18 to 24.

But what we wanted to understand was who’s actually buying, right who’s buying the jewelry.

So we went through, we use social listening data and stacked that with paid media data, we’re also running there paid media to look at who was actually buying.

And what we’ve found by stacking those three data sources was that her audience was actually 25 to 34, with the second largest group being 35 to I believe, 44.

So her two biggest buying groups, what they were talking about her on social, that’s what we found out through listening, we had their interest was much, much, much older than we thought it was.

So I just think, you know, and I’m sure Chris will back me up here.

But any sort of data that you can collect on the audience’s that you have, you should be storing somewhere and doing something with because it can tell you a lot.

But looking at one data source, you know, ie only organic followers on social media wasn’t enough to give the complete story.

Christopher Penn 18:16

Yeah, especially because we know in a couple of years, some of that data will be constrained to California’s new privacy Rex, the Privacy Rights Act of 2020, which takes effect January 120 23, is a major change from the older consumer Privacy Act, which took effect in 2020.

The big change in cpra is that sharing data is now covered at you ccpa only legislated the buying and selling of consumer data.

So cpra also now restricts the sharing of data.

So for example, if we have web form, that is a co registration between our two companies, that is now governed even though no dollars, change hands, that is still now governed by this by the new Privacy Act.

So expect that you know as as time goes on, we’re gonna continue to see what data we can get out of any entity that isn’t our own.

restricted.

It sounds like the one of the most logical things to do would be to build your own social network, right? In a community like Slack, for example, or discord, where you own the community as, obviously you don’t own the platform, but you own the administration of the community.

You can’t, you know, put into a social listening tool, you have to export the data and analyze it yourself.

But it sounds like that’s going to be one of the best ways that and as much as people love to crap on it.

The venerable email newsletter is still like the best channel it is, you know, we look at our own date, it’s 70% of our conversions come from email newsletters, because the audience can they just hit reply and talk to you or click on things or whatever.

Brooke Sellas 19:51

Yeah, and it’s yours.

You own it, no one else owns it.

Right.

So I know that’s one of the things that TrustInsights.ai has also been like hitting me over the head.

If I think I finally get it like now that this is all coming, I’m like, furiously trying to fix our list because quite honestly, you know, we were focused on social, we were both focused on paid email was never my thing.

And now I’m like, Oh, my God, email needs to be number one thing that I’m thinking about every day, because this is all coming.

And it’s just so important that you own as much of the data as you can.

So that would be my advice, first and foremost, and you don’t have a list, start building.

And if you do have a list, start, like doing everything you can to make it clean, and just segment it and make it just as pretty imperfect as you can.

Katie Robbert 20:37

Well, and I think that that’s a really good point, because I was going to ask, you know, what should marketers be thinking about with these changes coming.

And so it sounds like, think about the content, and the data that you own.

And so you can own your email list, you can own the content that you publish, you own your website, think of all of your own pieces.

And if you are doubling down on social right now, if you are doubling down on paid ads, but you’re not diversifying the digital channels, that might be a place to start, like what else could you be doing? What is your SEO strategy? So yes, as Chris mentioned, Google owns 70%, you know, of this sort of digital space.

But SEO is still a really powerful tool.

And theoretically, you’re creating content to then post on social, why wouldn’t you also be optimizing it as well as people are searching? That’s one of those, quote unquote, free digital channels, it doesn’t cost you to have SEO, it does, obviously, cost you resources and time, but you’re not paying to put your content out there.

Brooke Sellas 21:39

Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that we started on, as we started to realize the importance of email was like, let’s do an audit of what we’ve had, right are nine years old, we don’t have nothing.

So we’re kind of starting at the foundational work of, we’re auditing all the content that we do have.

And we’re going to look at it in a strategic way to say like, Hey, here’s five blog posts on topic x.

But if we put these together as a free download, in exchange for an email, that’s one way to, you know, hopefully, quickly grow our list.

Any of the case studies that we have that are powerful, like the ones the one that we have with Trust Insights, what about running a paid media strategy behind that, again, to either get more emails, or to get people to maybe sign up for a free consultation.

So I think, you know, as marketers, we all need to be looking at what we have, right? And what that’s, that’s where I would start low hanging fruit, auditing what we have, but then also, you’re going to have to look at all the strategies that you have in place, you guys have been talking to us about attribution models, I think those are going to have to be real thought about now with everything that’s coming.

So I think it’s almost like a spring clean in a way that has to happen for every marketer everywhere based on what’s coming.

Christopher Penn 22:55

The big thing Oh, I love this from Jay Baer, his book utility, which is now a few years old, but it’s still it’s still a good book is, is your content, good enough that someone would pay money for it? Right? Because if it isn’t, you’re not going to get people to register for your newsletter or fill out a form? Or if they do, they’ll have immediate buyer’s remorse or put it in your crap dating or test at test Comm.

I don’t know of anybody who does that.

But if your content is so good, that someone would willingly even pay money for it, then gating it’s probably going to be the right way to go.

If it’s not, you know, I would say, gaming, it’s probably not necessarily the right choice until your quality of content goes up.

How do you when you talk to clients about the quality of their content? How do you advise them to boost the quality of their content? Like what what specific tactics Do you give them to say, like, here’s how to make people say, I actually want this.

Brooke Sellas 23:54

Yeah, well, we’ve had another conversation about this recently.

So with our case studies, we’ve always followed like a really simple formula of present the problem, present the solution to the problem that that solution up with data, and then give a customer testimonial, right, super simple.

Because ultimately, what we’re all trying to do when we’re selling our products or services is to show people like, Hey, this is how this thing will solve your thing.

And then, Chris, you have technical,

Unknown Speaker 24:24
very, very well,

Brooke Sellas 24:25

but Chris has an even deeper, I would say, probably more strategic way in which you address content, and it’s called pigs, right.

Christopher Penn 24:35

Yeah.

So the state the problem, state the impact of the problem if you don’t solve it,

Brooke Sellas 24:40

yes.

See, that goes even a layer deeper.

Yeah, I love it.

The general

Christopher Penn 24:44

solution, which is what’s the solution, the problem then the specific solution, which is how you solve the problem, but there’s there’s actually a third layer on top of that, and it’s something that I actually got from reading, mostly CDC papers in the last year or so.

Which is in the abstract for a lot of these papers, it was mostly about the Coronavirus.

It says there’s something about something what is known about the issue? What value does this research add? And then what are the implications? And I think that middle part is a part that a lot of marketers don’t consider, which is, I’m going to put out a new white paper about social listening or something, right? What value am I adding to what’s already known? Because if I’m just repeating the same old crap, you know, you should listen to your customers? Well, no kidding.

Katie Robbert 25:33

No one does.

We

Unknown Speaker 25:33
all know that we should.

Christopher Penn 25:35

Exactly we didn’t need a white paper to tell you that God knew it’s what value is added by the content you create? How is how is your content advancing the field of marketing, even if it’s just a tiny little bit in a way that if you hadn’t read this paper, you wouldn’t know.

And that, to me is where I see a ton of marketing just totally fall down, is it really is the same old thing all the time.

Katie Robbert 26:00

It’s why I, you know, when people ask, like, oh, what marketing books do you read? Or what leadership books have you read? I’m like, I don’t.

And, you know, and it’s not, you know, that’s not to say that they’re all crap, but like, my general opinion, is that they’re all crap.

And I can’t say that I would write anything better, that they do really just regurgitate the same information over and over again.

However, the way in which somebody makes it successful is to put a new spin on it like a new idea.

So basically, you know, Chris, one of the things that you know, you like to talk about is how old machine learning is how old artificial intelligence really, truly is.

But people are right now they’re like, Oh, my God, this this new shiny thing? And you’re like, no, it’s been around quite a long time, more than most of you have.

And so it’s not, that there are like, brand new things, it’s new ideas around the same thing and new applications of it.

And that’s, I think that’s, you know, it’s what you’re saying, Chris, like, that’s what’s missing.

So, you know, anytime we approach, a webinar, a paper, even our live stream, even this podcast, our first question is, what does the audience get out of it? Why would they even care what we have to say? What is the so what which is, so

Unknown Speaker 27:16
what I was gonna say, y’all to say to me all the time, what’s the So what?

Katie Robbert 27:25

That actually started, because, you know, when Chris and I first launched Trust Insights, you know, we would be doing things and he would give me this, you know, analysis that we’re going to send to a client be like, so what, what do I do with this? How do I, how do I use this? What do I care about? Like, so what why am I just looking at a bunch of numbers? What do I do? And so that’s really been our mantra for Trust Insights, in general, is everything we do we say, so what? Like, who cares about this thing? So what? And that’s really what you know, if you take nothing else away from this podcast is when you’re thinking about the work that you’re doing as a marketer, ask yourself, so what? Who cares?

Christopher Penn 28:06

Exactly.

And and the so what very often comes into how do you solve the problem? Right? So even if the problem statement isn’t new it because it isn’t right? You know, privacy restrictions are tightening.

That’s not news.

That’s, you know, 15 years of marketing? The so what is okay, well, what do we do about it? And you don’t have to get fancy about it.

When we’re getting ready for the show, I put together as a brief outline, right, which is, what is it? Why does it matter? And how do we, how do we deal with it? And we’ve covered all these points, right? So it’s not like we have to read it off the screen.

But even just your basic content marketing and a blog post, you know, the what, and the why, aka the problem and the impact.

What’s the solution? Well, here’s, you know, how do you how do you fix the problem so that when it comes to creating value out of, for people that will power paid and unpaid efforts? It’s not rocket surgery?

Unknown Speaker 28:59
No,

Unknown Speaker 29:00
No, it isn’t.

It

Brooke Sellas 29:01

just takes like the the thought the critical thinking, I think, is the piece that a lot of us want to leave out, right? And I will say, not me, because I’ve learned my lesson on what happens when you leave out the critical thinking, but but we do it right.

A lot of times, we’re moving so fast, we’re just in a hurry to like push the easy buttons, we leave that part out.

And I think moving forward, maybe and again, this is callous to say but maybe this will be a good thing.

It might weed out some of those people who don’t include critical thinking and you know, maybe they shouldn’t be invited to the field anymore to play because moving forward, you’re going to have to involve the critical thinking to get some of these things done.

Katie Robbert 29:41

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Um, you know, because if, if you’re skipping over that part like you’re going to continue to scramble and this is a great time for marketers to dust off their AV testing.

This is a great time to be experimenting with different things because There is no one right answer to say, and this is how you solve this problem, because as we always like to say, Well, it depends, it depends on the type of business you have, it depends on where your audiences, it depends on who your audience is, it depends on what you’re selling, it depends on what you care about.

And so starting to test some of these solutions that we’ve been talking about whether it be, you know, producing more quality content and gaining it, whether it be an email newsletter, whether it be, you know, doubling down or on organic social media, that is a good solution for you, or some of these other advertising vendors, you have to test those things in order to know what’s going to work for you.

That’s sort of the so what of what to do about this, you know, issue with third party data that’s not only coming, but is currently here.

Christopher Penn 30:51

Exactly.

So to wrap up, Brooke, where can we people find out more about you and your company,

Brooke Sellas 30:56

we are not calm.

So it’s b squared dot media.

And you can pretty much Google my name Bruxelles.

As far as I know, thus far, I’m like, the only Bruxelles around.

So you can find me and we can definitely continue the conversation, preferably on Twitter.

I’m not very active on some of the other social platforms, but I’m pretty active on Twitter.

So I’d love to chat with you all.

They’re

Christopher Penn 31:20

awesome.

If you’ve got questions about anything you’ve we’ve talked about today, hop on over to our free slack community Trust insights.ai slash analytics for marketers where you know 1700 other markers are asking questions and providing answers to each other all day long, clean, like in the middle of the night, which is pretty awesome.

And wherever it is that you’re tuning into the show today, if you there’s a channel you prefer go to Trust insights.ai slash ti podcast where you can find us on pretty much any place that normally stocks podcasts.

Thanks for tuning in.

We’ll talk to you soon take care want help solving your company’s data analytics and digital marketing problems.

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