In this episode of In-Ear Insights, Katie and Chris answer one of the most common questions for jobseekers: “What should my salary be?” Learn the two different methods for determining how much compensation to ask for, and ways to handle salary negotiations in interviews.
Key points from this episode:
1. The first step in determining your salary is to assess your monthly expenses and calculate your monthly target income after taxes.
2. The second step is to research the average salary for your position and location using a tool like salary.com.
3. The difference between your monthly target income and the average salary for your position is your negotiating zone.
4. It is important to be prepared to negotiate your salary in a job interview, as this can be a very intimidating thing.
5. Consider using data to back up your negotiation, as this can be very helpful in getting the salary you deserve.
Subscribe To This Show!
If you're not already subscribed to In-Ear Insights, get set up now!
- In-Ear Insights on Apple Podcasts
- In-Ear Insights on Google Podcasts
- In-Ear Insights on all other podcasting software
Advertisement: Google Analytics 4 for Marketers
Attention marketers! Are you ready to unlock the full potential of Google Analytics 4? With only a few short months left until GA4 becomes the sole Google Analytics option, now is the time to get ahead of the game.
TrustInsights.ai's Google Analytics 4 course is here to guide you through the measurement strategy and tactical implementation of GA4 in just 5.5 hours. With 17 comprehensive modules, you'll gain the knowledge and skills necessary to effectively set up and configure GA4 to work for your unique business needs.
But that's not all. Our newly updated course, released in January 2023, covers major configuration differences in Google Analytics 4 to ensure you're up-to-date and fully equipped for success. Plus, our course is fully accessible with captions, audio, and text downloads, so you can learn at your own pace and in your preferred method.
The clock is ticking, and with GA4 set to replace all previous versions of Google Analytics, you won't have year-over-year data until the day you turn it on and set GA4 up. Don't miss out on valuable insights that will help your business thrive. Register for TrustInsights.ai's Google Analytics 4 course now and take control of your data.
Click/tap here to enroll in the course now »
Sponsor This Show!Are you struggling to reach the right audiences? Trust Insights offers sponsorships in our newsletters, podcasts, and media properties to help your brand be seen and heard by the right people. Our media properties reach almost 100,000 people every week, from the In Ear Insights podcast to the Almost Timely and In the Headlights newsletters. Reach out to us today to learn more.
Watch the video here:
Can’t see anything? Watch it on YouTube here.
Listen to the audio here:
- Need help with your company’s data and analytics? Let us know!
- Join our free Slack group for marketers interested in analytics!
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.
Christopher Penn 0:00
In this week’s In-Ear Insights, let’s talk about what salary should you ask for it? This is a question that came up in the previous so what episodes you might check out that out on the YouTube channel.
But let’s let’s dig into how do we even know what kind of salary to ask for? So Katie, on the show, you want to recap what you and John have talked about, in terms of where where you’d started to think about compensation.
Katie Robbert 0:25
Yeah, so the so what episode Chris, that you’re referencing, John and I did last week, which was the 17th of November, if you’re looking for that specific episode, it was, you know, how to determine red flags for from a potential employer.
And one of the things that came up was if they’re not willing to discuss the salary range with you like, so if you’re talking with the hiring manager, and they said, Well, I’m not authorized to discuss salary with you, or I can’t tell you what other people at your level are making competitively, then that’s a huge red flag, because I hate the term in this day and age, but in this day and age, salaries no longer as taboo or confidential.
It’s pretty wide open in terms of it’s pretty transparent in terms of like, here’s what I make, here’s what you should be making.
And there’s really no rules around when it can and cannot be discussed anymore.
You know, I feel like it’s a very outdated, antiquated, you know, mindset of, well, we can’t talk about salary, because that’s just very personal.
And to be fair, some of it is like, you don’t have to share what you’re making, if you’re not comfortable.
But in terms of negotiation with a, you know, potential employer, you absolutely should be having those conversations.
Christopher Penn 1:49
And as of January one, this coming year, employers in California and New York no longer have a choice, it will be mandatory salary salaries must be published as part of job descriptions, which
Katie Robbert 2:04
is weird to me that they don’t currently publish that information in general, because you would think that you would either attract or, you know, not attract more candidates based on those salary requirements.
And so, you know, it, you would imagine that it would be beneficial for a hiring manager to say this is the salary range.
And so that way, they wouldn’t be inundated with 1000s of resumes of people thinking that it’s much, much higher than it is, or they have people who are more qualified to go yep, okay, I can do that.
Christopher Penn 2:36
So I was at a conference last week via society for marketing professional services.
And one of the speakers, Kat was just before me was talking about the chaos that that can cause in an organization, because the published salary range may be substantially higher than the people who are currently employed in that job.
And they were saying at one point that an employee said, well, we can’t publish salary ranges, or we’ll have to true up our salaries to the published ranges.
And Kat said, Well, your choices are either you can pay the million dollars to true up to, you know, to bring everyone to the levels of published or you can spend that $20 million is going to cost you to rehire everybody, when they all quit.
Katie Robbert 3:17
I, so I can speak to a real story.
So obviously, a lot of hourly positions in the service industry are struggling to hire.
And so they keep upping the minimum salary to like, $15 an hour, $16 an hour, $20 an hour.
And honestly, it varies, you know, town by town store by store.
And so I’ve mentioned before, that my husband works in a very large grocery chain, and he’s been there for, gosh, 15 years.
And they, the chain in general is struggling to hire so they keep upping the starting salary.
Well, they have no plans to true up three other people salaries.
So people who are just walking through the door, are going to make be making close, if not more, than people like my husband who have been there for 15 years, and it is pissing people off left and right.
And then so you will be losing that experience and that institutional knowledge of people who are willing to put up with your bullshit, basically, for these brand new people who are just going to last three months, and then go move on to the next door, that’s gonna pay them another dollar more an hour.
So it is it is going to cause chaos, if it’s not handled correctly.
Christopher Penn 4:37
And that’s what’s most part of what causes the revolving door.
We saw this when we worked at the PR agency, people would instead of getting the three or 4% Raise, you’re just quit and get a 20% raise and a title change by flipping to the next agency.
So they they they were people who did that about every 18 months and made vice president you know in in half the time because they just kept job hopping from position to position or whether they were actually good at their job.
Katie Robbert 5:06
It doesn’t matter.
It honestly, it almost doesn’t matter.
Because when these companies are faced with that constant revolving door, they’re just looking for any warm body to fill that seat, that’s good enough.
That is competent enough, until whoever is taking that role decides to move on again, because they didn’t get the money they needed.
And while it’s costly for companies to shore up, it’s also exhausting for jobseekers to be constantly switching jobs, unless you thrive in that kind of uncertainty and chaos.
And some people quite honestly do.
And that’s fine.
I as evidenced by how long I stay at jobs do not.
And so but that’s also hurt me in terms of being able to demand a higher salary from previous employers.
Christopher Penn 5:58
So let’s dig into this exercise.
This is something that I used to do when I was a recruiter because I was a recruiter for about a year I did very badly at it.
I was gonna
Katie Robbert 6:07
say that scares me.
I feel like that’s all those whole lot of those stories for another episode.
Christopher Penn 6:13
Well, I mean, just the the very brief summary is the reason I was bad at it.
Because recruiting is the only sales job where the product can Ansel itself.
Meaning the candidate can go into a job and and do so badly, that even though you’ve done your job, as a recruiter trying to match the right person for the right job, the candidate goes in there and doesn’t do as well.
But that’s that is indeed another story for another time.
Let’s go through, the first thing we want to do is there’s two kinds of salary assessments, you want to do those internal and external.
So let’s start with the the internal salary assessment, I’m gonna go ahead and share a Chrome tab here.
And this is something that should not be a surprise to anyone.
This is a standard spreadsheet, the first thing we want to do is just to make a list of our monthly expenses.
So say your rent is 2500 a month, you spend 500 $500, on food, you spend $300, on utilities, all that maybe it’s more than that, because these days, you’ve got your $100 with Netflix and Hulu and whatever, you try to put aside maybe 150 bucks a month, maybe you spend 200 bucks a month on gas, depending what kind of car you drive.
And then if you if you have insurance of some kind, typically, that is billed quarterly or annually, but work it out to whatever it works out to for months.
So in my case, I would take like $6,000 a year, and that’s my monthly insurance costs.
Katie Robbert 7:45
Let’s go ahead.
So before you go on, if you’re listening to this podcast, you know without the video, then you can see what Chris is doing.
If you go to trust insights.ai/youtube, where you can see the corresponding video.
So what Chris has up on his screen right now is a very simple spreadsheet, he’s putting together his own personal budget plan, so that he knows how much money is going out the door, month over month for himself personally,
Christopher Penn 8:12
This is fictional, this is not actually right, of course.
So what we’ve got here, and you’re going to want to look at your credit card statements, your bank statements, all this stuff, to figure out what you spend every month on everything and anything.
In this case, the the number here is $4,250 a month.
Now we’re going to add in a 10% emergency and take that number times 1.1.
So your target after taxes is $4,675 a month.
So annual salary after taxes equals this before 4625 times 12.
So you need to be clearing after taxes, Social Security, blah, blah, blah, $56,100 a month.
The way to figure out what that is before taxes is to figure out a what your tax bracket is.
This is mostly for the United States, but obviously it applies to to anyone.
So you have your federal tax and you have your state tax.
The Massachusetts state income tax for where we live is 6%.
So it equals this times point 06 And then your federal tax bracket.
Generally speaking, most people I think are going to be in 2020 to 25%.
So equals this times point two five, so I’m multiplying the the taxes afterwards, times those numbers.
I’m going to add those all together and your target salary is going to be your 56 100 which is your target after taxes plus your taxes.
So your four so in this example person here, the money that you should be trying to aim for should be at least 73,400 $91 so called $75,000, for sure.
That’s your internal salary calculation.
You want to do this exercise so that you can figure out how do I, how do I know what, why should not go below, right? This is the number like if you go below this number, you’re going to be incurring potential financial hardship.
Whereas if you stay above this number, then anything an employer offers you would be gravy on top of that would be a great I can go and you know, maybe subscribe to Disney plus.
Katie Robbert 10:32
Thanks for saving, start a 401k.
Christopher Penn 10:35
Exactly as you pay an arm and a leg for Taylor Swift tickets, whatever the good, that’s exactly.
So that is the the the internal salary and this computation.
Again, real simple.
Your bank account statements, your credit card statements, whatever it is, you’re spending money on, just work it out to wherever the multi equivalent is, add that all up and then add back in your taxes.
And it tells you your target.
So that’s the external.
The second step is to do the I was that’s the intro, the second step is the external.
So this again, this is something that you and John discussed on the show.
And that is you go to a place like salary.com, or any of these these places.
And you say, Okay, what am I worth, so let’s do say marketing manager.
And let’s do Boston, Massachusetts.
And get a salary estimate.
And let’s take a look at our job title here.
Katie Robbert 11:34
Well, in this and this is where you need to really do the research, because titles are pretty much irrelevant these days.
And so you need to do enough research to figure out an equivalent type job, because a manager at one company is not the same as a manager at you know, a company down the street.
Christopher Penn 11:53
So here we have, besides a whole bunch of ads, we have a a bell curve of your the lowest 10% People in the marketing manager position in Boston, make $97,900.
The median is $127,972.
And then the top 10% make $164,096.
Now, this makes me
Katie Robbert 12:21
Why? Well, because when I was a marketing manager, I was not making that money.
And I was told I couldn’t make that kind of money.
Christopher Penn 12:32
So generally speaking, when you look at jobs and salaries, the number to pay attention to is that bottom 10%.
That is the number that pretty much everybody should be making that that if you’re in the correct title.
And that means that when we look, when we think back to our budget, right, our budget said $74,000 $75,000 A year is what we needed to make.
The bottom line like everybody who’s in this job, whether or not they’re actually good at it, is 97,000.
So in this case, we’ve got a pretty good match, right? We’ve got, you can walk in there with some level of confidence and say, yeah, no matter what happens, as long as I get the job, I’m going to be making enough to cover my fees to cover my expenses.
Katie Robbert 13:23
Yeah, and I, it’s you as the job seeker, it is your responsibility to be to come with this research, the company that you’re applying to is not going to do it for you, they’re gonna hope that you aren’t doing it at all.
And we’ll just accept whatever they offer you.
Which to be quite honest, it has was the position that I was in, it was not something that I didn’t know things like salary.com existed.
I didn’t know I was never taught or told that it was okay to negotiate the salary that they were offering you.
And so those are the things that were detrimental to my career, that looking back those are, you know, tips and tricks and tactics that I wish I had known.
Christopher Penn 14:08
Now, the other thing that tools like this give you is like gives you a sense of what’s what’s the potential bonus structure look like.
So people who are in that position, we see the bottom 10% With bonuses can get to $102,000 so they can get to six figures.
The top 10% With bonuses can get up to $183,000.
Now, this is Boston, this is today, this is based on the panel of folks that they’ve asked you can also look at the benefits to say okay, what are the things that your core compensation and then all the other stuff like health care for example, if someone is offering you 100% healthcare, then that is worth you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars sometimes depending on the location and the regulations in your area.
So that may be something you have to factor into Your costs, what you’re able to ask for.
So that’s the external salaries you have internal salary, external salary.
And the the way to think about this, that is your internal salary number, you can’t go below that.
That is that is non negotiable to you, your external salary is how much could you get if you position yourself as a great candidate.
And then the difference is the negotiating zone to say like, okay, Katie, we’ve got this marketing manager position open, but we’re a crappy agency that can that that routinely underpaid people because we know they’re gonna last nine months anyway.
We would you would you consider this job for $85,000? And if you have that mental number in your head of you, I need to make 75.
You know, maybe you can extract some more concessions, I want four weeks of time off instead of two.
I want 100% health care instead of 80%.
I want vesting of my options at an accelerated rate.
You can make that up.
But if I said, Katie, can you do this job for $70,000? The answer would be no, like No, can’t do that.
Katie Robbert 16:09
Now, here’s the you know, data aside, negotiating salary in a job interview can be a very intimidating thing.
And not everyone is comfortable being that direct and blunt, especially if you’re in a position where you really need a job, and you’ve been looking for a long time.
And so, you know, I feel like depending on your personality, probably even depending on your gender and your background, it’s going to be more tricky to feel comfortable.
Speaking up, I know, I can only speak from my experience, but as a woman, with primarily male hiring managers, I felt very uncomfortable having those conversations because they will get shut down immediately.
And so Chris, what’s your advice? Or how have you navigated that?
Christopher Penn 16:59
So unsurprisingly, the answer I will go with is a certain amount of data, there are websites out there, that can give you a sense of what the market is like.
So this is an example.
This is the St.
Louis Federal Reserve Bank, Fred.
And we’re looking at, in this case, the number of marketing job postings on indeed.com.
In the US, since February of 2020.
That’s the zero line.
If you were applying for a job in, say, May of 2020, there are 53% fewer marketing jobs, the chances of you getting a job are pretty low, right? People just aren’t hiring.
And so you might have said, Yeah, you know what, I’m gonna take whatever I can get, because things suck.
The economy’s just not there.
If you’re applying for a job in February of 2022, there’s 84% more openings than there were.
And so the balance of power is in the favor of the job seeker and not the employer.
And so data like this gives you a sense going right in? What’s the balance of power? Is the market in favor of the employer? Or is the market in favor of the candidate, if the marketer is in favor of the candidate, you know, that you can be a little bit more bold, you can say, like, Yeah, I know that.
You’re stuck, like you can’t hire.
You can even do things like look at sites like archive.org, which is the the Internet Archive, and see how long a job postings been up there.
It’s kind of like with real estate, you know, like, hey, this house has been on the market or 541 days, you know, you’re gonna give me a break on price, because you’re clearly not able to sell it, there’s something wrong that in a hot housing market, this house is not moving.
On the other hand, if the house is, you know, on the market for two days, and there’s five bids, like, Alright, I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you whatever I can, whatever it can, because I need this.
And it’s not at all it’s not there.
So you’re right.
It’s a balance of what do you need? As a person? Like, do you need a job today? Or can you afford to wait, and it’s a balance of the employer? Like, do you know that this employer is in dire straits and and they are trying to put butts in seats? Like, Hey, I just fired half the company? Oh, wait, we need those people.
Can you come back? At that point, you can be like, so I was working for $100,000 You’re not going to pay me 150 Because I’m the only one who knows how your systems operate.
And, and you need me.
And from a confidence perspective, having that information up front before, you know, like you said, doing your research really helps set the tone in your own head of like, I know what I’m walking into.
Katie Robbert 19:39
Know, and I think that that’s, that’s really important, because without that, at least those talking points, those research points.
It’s hard to find that confidence to be I mean, Chris, to be fair, the way you’re describing is very aggressive.
And you know, you do need to stand up for yourself in those job interviews.
You It’s not easy for everyone to do that I know myself at 22 years old when I was looking for a full time job, did not have that confidence.
And I bungled a lot of job interviews, and also had a lot of really terrible interviews with terrible people.
But I was just so grateful that they were even interviewing me, my goodness.
And so I think, you know, the advice for someone who’s looking for a job who’s looking to negotiate salary is, at the very least have all of those talking points, you know, well, according to salary.com, you know, who interviews you know, session shows people, you know, the salary range for this role, my understanding is this, but it sounds like you’re offering me less than that, is there a way that we could meet, so, you know, there’s ways to have those conversations, that is still to your benefit, and you’re just, you know, sharing the information, sort of removing emotion from it, because Job interviews can be very emotional, because, you know, this is your future, maybe you’re interviewing for your dream job, but the hiring manager is a complete dick.
And that’s going to ruin the experience for you.
So having all of that information to go in with is going to make it easier for you to stay focused, like so, for example, when I get you know, overwhelmed, or I’m starting to feel very emotional about something, I have a hard time focusing on what the person is saying to me.
And so it’s one of the reasons why when, you know, faced with a big decision, or you know, I have to respond to something, I take some time I take a day or two, you know, to really collect my thoughts, but you don’t necessarily have that opportunity in a job interview, it’s a lot of right then in there, taking in a lot of information that can be overwhelming and trying to respond to it.
And so having those data points to help keep you focused, will help to sort of lessen the amount of overwhelming information that’s coming at you.
Christopher Penn 22:01
And the other thing to keep in mind, well, there’s two other things keep in mind, cat, Kevin cat, Katrina, Kevin was the person that was spoken SLPs.
And I go follow them on on LinkedIn stuff.
They’re fascinating person and have a lot of really good insights on hiring.
But one thing to keep in mind is, we don’t interview a whole lot, right? In our careers, maybe we interview 510 times, you know, for jobs.
It’s not, it’s not something we do on a regular frequent basis, which means that we don’t really have an opportunity to practice.
So the number one thing that you can do, to become more comfortable with interviewing, is interviewing.
Ask some of your friends to play that role.
Do the role playing.
If you have a mentor, if you have a professional network, if you have a place like our free Slack community analytics for marketers, asks, Hey, I’m, I’m just need to practice my interviewing skills.
Would somebody be willing to be an aggressive interviewer a confrontational interview with whatever you know, from your past? Like, I know, I’m really bad in this situation? Is there someone who would volunteer to play the bad cop role, so that I get practice handling that,
Katie Robbert 23:08
I would love to do that for anyone who needs that? So, you know, join our analytics for marketers free slack group.
And let me know if you want to have that kind of practice.
I’m happy to do that.
Christopher Penn 23:19
If you want a terrible interviewer asked me, I’ll be more than happy to give you a really awkward interview.
So that’s part one.
Part two is, and this is something that Kat was saying last week at the event is when it comes down to qualifications, most employers are lying most of the time.
And you can.
And you can be very specific in your questions.
And that can change the balance of power in the interview, for example.
You might say, you need to have six years experience for this job, right.
And the question, and this is cats exempt.
The question you asked is, can you tell me specifically, what is somebody who has six years of experience know that somebody with four years of experience doesn’t know? And the employers don’t know? They know like, Okay, well, then maybe that requirements, not necessarily all that important, has a bachelor’s degree in communications? What does somebody that has a bachelor’s degree in communications know that somebody who has three years work experience but no degree wouldn’t know? And again, if the answer is I don’t really know, then you can start picking apart those requirements.
If you see a position that you like that but you know, there’s these things that seem like obstacles.
Go for it anyway, with those specific questions in mind to say look like let’s let’s pick this apart, you know, must know Adobe Photoshop, how often how is Photoshop something we do in this role every day? Like it? How important is that requirement, actually? And if the answer is actually nobody uses Photoshop here, we just copied and pasted that from the last job description like oh, okay, so let’s draw a red line through that.
We don’t really need that.
This is something Andy Crestodina says specificity correlates with conversion.
But it also means that when you’re interviewing, the more specific you are a, it shows that you’re really dialed into the position and be, it pushes back on a lot of the probably bogus requirements there in a job.
Katie Robbert 25:19
Well, and you know, that’s something, it’s advice that I always give to people who are asking for it is, even if you don’t meet all of the qualifications in a job posting, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t apply.
Because those are, you know, definitely just talking points to go through during the interview.
So you know, to your point, Chris, well, you know, I have all of the other qualifications, but I don’t have 12 years of experience doing it, could I still do the job? Probably, because what is 12 years get you versus six years, just more time doing the same thing? You know, so it’s definitely good to bring those questions into the interview.
have, you know, so I noted here that you wanted someone who had two years of PR experience? Well, I only have one year, but let me tell you what I was able to do in learn in that one year.
And so presenting yourself, you know, as accomplished versus being like, Oh, well, I don’t have the experience.
I can’t do the thing.
You can do the thing.
You absolutely can.
Christopher Penn 26:20
And those specific questions, again, like exactly what you’re saying, Katie, open up the door for you to talk about experiences, say, so you’re asking for 12 years experience? What does that person do know that a person with nine years experience doesn’t be able to do it? They’re the bosses like, well, maybe they lead larger teams, really? How large a team 20 people? Let me tell you about the time I managed a 20 person team at my last position, right? And, and so you can you can take the teeth out of those requirements.
And say, like, here’s, here’s how I do exactly what you’re asking for.
But it doesn’t look like it on paper, but I’m a better fit for you than some person who has 12 years experience, but maybe never actually managed a team 20.
Katie Robbert 27:03
Well, and you know, if we bring it back to our own personal experience, when I was hired, Chris, to run your marketing tech team, I had zero experience in marketing technology, which was one of the requirements on the job description was that you had like, three to five years of experience in that and I had zero to zero years of experience in it.
And yet somehow I managed to make the team pretty successful in less than those three to five years of experience that was required.
Christopher Penn 27:34
And in that example, the questions to ask were okay.
What does the knowing of marketing technology have to do with the problem that you’re facing, which is you have a team that is being badly managed? Right? Because the real skill that was needed is not marketing technology, the real skill was, can you heard these cats? Right.
Katie Robbert 27:55
And that was something that I could confidently speak to, and now I was able to learn marketing technology, and I’m still learning marketing technology as I go.
But that’s not where my expertise was most needed.
And so that in that situation, worked out to my benefit and your benefit, that it didn’t matter if I knew a CPA from a CPC from a CPM, A, I’ll be honest, those things still confused me.
But that’s not where my skill set is needed.
You absolutely don’t need me to be an expert in those things.
Unknown Speaker 28:30
And so what this has to do with the question of salary is that when we go back to this chart, if we say that a person who barely knows stuff meets the minimum requirements, would get that that 10%, you know, be on the left hand side of that that bell curve.
If you’re able to say, well, let me talk, let’s talk through these requirements.
Let’s let’s be more specific, every single requirement that you can knock down with your specific experience moves you a little further.
On the right of this bell curve, you can say, well, you know, how critical is team match? Oh, it’s the most important thing.
Great, I can do that.
Let’s talk about salaries, maybe closer towards the middle.
How important is with Team retention? We’re training people like crazy, we can’t keep something more in six months.
Let me tell you about my three retention strategies, and let’s maybe talk about a salary, it’s close to that 75% line, because these are the things you’ve said, are mission critical.
I can do those things for you.
And you can get to those higher salaries.
So you have your internal requirements, this is you must get this number or else you’re in financial trouble.
And I would very strongly encourage you to always add that 10% buffer on top of any other savings you’re doing, because stuff happens in life.
And then with the external salary requirements, look at the data.
Look at the requirements, look at what you can actually do and be prepared to talk to people unsay let’s let’s be very specific about what you’re requiring for this job, what’s really your the problem? Because interviewing for a job, it’s a sales job, you’re you were the salesperson, the product you’re selling is you, you would not accept a sales person’s like, so I mean, the products, okay?
Christopher Penn 30:18
I mean, I guess, right? Like, no, no, let’s talk about how this product will solve your problem, right? This, this software will make your life easier will make you more money will will cover your butt from your boss.
That same approach can help you move that salary needle from the left hand side of that bell curve to the right hand side.
Katie Robbert 30:39
And I think Chris, your advice about running through dry runs of practice interviews is going to be critical.
Especially as you know, the hiring process.
I mean, the last time you and I went through, it was many, many moons ago, and it’s probably changed a lot.
And there’s a lot of hoops to jump through.
And so the more prepared you are as an applicant, the more comfortable you feel in those uncertain situations, the better off you’re going to be.
So definitely find a friend, find a colleague, you know, find someone in our analytics for marketers slack group, who’s willing to play the role of that, you know, squirrely uncertain hiring manager who’s gonna throw curveballs at you, and give you the space in that safety to practice what you would say, and do it as much as you need to in order so that it just feels like muscle memory at that point.
And then you can focus on what’s really important, which is getting the job and getting you know, the salary that you deserve.
Christopher Penn 31:39
Maybe we’ll do another follow up show on on sort of personal branding stuff.
Because you know, as you were saying that, like, yeah, I’ve the last job I interviewed for was in 2012.
So about 10 years ago now.
But the last time I even used a resume was 2003.
And a lot of that has to do with the personal branding stuff.
I think so maybe we’ll, we’ll we’ll add that for a follow up show.
Cuz I think that could be pretty helpful for some folks.
Katie Robbert 32:08
Yeah, we can absolutely do that.
But I think the bottom line is, do your research, make sure you know what your position is valued at.
Make sure you know what you’re valued at.
And get some practice in, make sure that you can walk into an interview confident that you’ve explored all the different scenarios that are going to be thrown at you from you know, an interviewer who leaves the room halfway through doesn’t say anything to get themselves some coffee and not come back for 10 minutes, so you’re not sure what’s happening.
And yet somehow, you still managed to get the job to a hiring manager who is on their game and gives you all of the information.
And that in and of itself can be jarring because you weren’t expecting it.
Christopher Penn 32:51
If you want to share your own interviewing tips on your own salary negotiation tips, feel free to pop on over to the free slack group go to trust insights.ai/analytics for marketers, where you and almost 3000 other marketers are asking and answering each other’s questions every single day.
And wherever it is you watch or listen to the show.
If there’s a platform you’d rather have it on go to trust insights.ai/ti podcast where you can find our show in all these different formats.
And if you’re there, please give it a thumbs up or a rating or review does help share the show.
Thanks for tuning in.
We’ll talk to you next time.
Need help with your marketing data and analytics?
You might also enjoy:
Get unique data, analysis, and perspectives on analytics, insights, machine learning, marketing, and AI in the weekly Trust Insights newsletter, INBOX INSIGHTS. Subscribe now for free; new issues every Wednesday!
Want to learn more about data, analytics, and insights? Subscribe to In-Ear Insights, the Trust Insights podcast, with new 10-minute or less episodes every week.